Okay.

Um, but I, I went and made the trip back over, and we did the second rhino, and, uh, he's a story unto himself.

[chuckles] But after that we went down to Makuzi, and I spent 30 days at Makuzi and, uh, shot 154 animals.

And we did a lot of setup shots on downed animals, uh, mostly verifying what we were seeing on, off the hunted animals.

And Tony and I both did a lot of those, and he- that's where he tested that Beeman shaft.

And we had another shaft that, uh, Tink Nathan was marketing then called a penetrator shaft.

Did you have any, any conflict with them?

Uh, I didn't, but, uh, one of my good friends, a PH also named Rory Mule, was severely mauled by a 90-pound leopard that was, uh, hit twice with a 300 Winchester Magnum, and once with a 458.

Yeah.

So these older bulls have to be removed, so the younger bulls can take a territory, so they can breed, so the herd can grow.

Uh, so it is a management type of hunt.

But, uh, I got a real trophy rhino with a 29-inch front horn on him, uh, 17 and a half pounds, big horn.

Uh, anyway, I, I, I got the rhino, and the rhinos are, are totally, totally different story, but, uh- They were talking to me about what they were trying to do.

And they said, we're going into Makuzi Park next year before the rifle cull.

Because same thing, they have to cull animals off because confined space can only support so many animals.

So, yeah.

118 factors?

Yeah.

And we expanded that today Because of all the new equipments on the market in the last 20 years, um, we're collecting just over 250 data points, because you literally have to record everything about every factor.

You know, the equipment used, shot distance, shot angles, bones hit, uh, every- everything, sharpness of the broadhead, every factor you could think of, uh, insert, shaft diameters, shaft wall thicknesses, everything.

Um, and so that's why it's expanded so much.

But, uh, all through my studies, I collected 118 data points.

Uh, and as I started...

So what, what, uh, what's an example of something that you feel like has, has been misinterpreted? And, and let's take this opportunity to try to put it to rest.

When you say heavy for caliber, is that about penetration?

It's about a number of things.

It does increase the amount, the mass of bullets you've got.

But it also decreases your velocity some.

Right.

Which your cuff and core bullets perform better at lower impact velocities.

And by lower, I'm talking about you get down around 2200 to 2000 feet per second.

Yeah, but even on the