[instrumental music]

I mean, the truth is, is a little bit accidentally.

Um, the, the interest that was more organic was non-suicidal self-injury.

And I remember the first time I, I, uh, I learned about, um, NSSI, non-suicidal self-injury, in undergraduate.

Just, just finding it inherently interesting because it just sort of goes against, you know, if you don't have experience with it, it goes against your intuitive sense of how people work.

You know, we want to avoid pain, so why do some people on, on some occasions, you know, self-inflict pain and injury? Um, and it registered, but I, I didn't really do anything with it.

And then in grad school, uh, in one of my early clinical practica, I was-- I encountered someone with schizophrenia diagnosis in a hospital but who also had a self-injury history.

... with each one of these.