still I mean he's still listed as a producer not just an executive producer who like has his name on the film to give it a bit of credibility but an actual producer I think on all of them they don't do it without his blessing I think they run a lot of this stuff by him don't they I imagine they do

Yeah, I think it's like he will have approval on the script.

Yeah.

And this is obviously, you know, they're developing a lot of different Evil Dead films.

And, you know, the two they've done recently have been incredibly successful based on the money they're made on.

So I think he's...

I don't think it's quite like we're trying to make this cohesive universe, but I just think it's a cool setup that can happen anywhere and anywhere and to a different bunch of characters.

I have a great idea, just saying.

Dylan, you

started with McCoy, didn't you? I did start with McCoy.

And then I got into Doctor Who, got some videos.

I know that...

I can't remember which one was first, but I think...

Well, my first Hartnell would have been The Five Doctors, so it would have been Richard Hurdnell.

And then I definitely got... an earthly child and the Daleks and thought they were dull as shit because I was like eight years old and they were in black and white and boring.

Tearing it apart.

And then it's just a mad story about data.

But no one was going to buy a series.

No network was going to buy a series about data.

They're like, we need Patrick Stewart to lead this series so we can jump back into that world.

I was probably the furthest away from Star Trek I could be when Picard happened.

And so I was just sort of like, oh, they're doing a Picard series.

I must watch that.

I doing over here? And I hate to feel like that because I feel like Star Trek's been something I've loved my entire life.

basically concurrent at that point um well yeah they had a source

Yeah, they had somebody taping them and sending them over.

That was the first time I saw Way of the Warrior.

Because I'm not the world's biggest Star Trek fan, I'd sort of drifted away from it a bit.

I'd watched most of the first couple of seasons of DS9 and went, actually, maybe this isn't for me.

And I saw that and I was like... what the fuck is this? And I'm back in.

It did.

way, it just doesn't happen now.

I don't think we would have gotten more Star Trek films, because at that time, production for Next Gen was ramping up.

Yeah.

Final Frontier was the first bit of Star Trek I ever saw.

I don't know whether it was the first film I ever saw in the cinema, but basically, I remember being sat down in a pontoon cinema...

The year it came out.

At this Pontins, there was a rock and roll festival that my dad and my uncles and aunts were there for.

Like, fuck, we need to do something with Dylan.

does your vision how yeah we will yeah we will yes but how does your vision of a of utopia hold up when you meet uh alternative viewpoint which is the dominion and kind of their view on sort of unity yeah

Is that right?

Yeah.

So there's two adaptations of it.

I th- I think I said to you it's one of my favorite films.

That's probably over-egging it a bit.

It's a film I watch a lot, and like once a year, something like that.

And I only found it maybe six or seven years ago.

And then in the 20th century, it started moving towards like the cabin in the woods and stuff, where it's, it's almost like we, we're post-industrial, so we're sort become suburban, but like the thing it's, things in the countryside are starting to get scary and, and the occult are the, the... it's almost like something which is outside of their understanding.

uh sort of man trap uh and the smugglers i think are two very different approaches to uh sort of science fiction adventure um and it's also obviously one of doctor who's very last pure historicals before it too kind of embraces i guess more sort of space and science fiction and stuff like that so it is obviously it's just a coincidence But do you think like that is kind of reflecting that kind of greater interest in kind of space at this stage?

It's weird that even though at the point that Star Trek premieres and the Smugglers is on, we're still three years away from Star Trek coming to the UK, right? Yeah.

But it's weird that at exactly the same time, the next story is the 10th planet.

And it's the first proper base under siege story that Doctor Who does.

And at that point, that becomes the formula for Doctor Who, at least for the next few years, and it becomes a staple of it.

And a base under siege by the nature of Star Trek feels like more Star Trek-y.

So there's something obviously in the air that says this is what sci-fi is at that point.

The guy who created the show was the one who would leak it to the fans because he became a thorn in the side of Star Trek as a piece of entertainment in a way where if you just, like Doctor Who, were leaving it up to production teams incoming that were trying to do the best of it, they would give the best of it.

I don't mind her in 24, but yeah.

I, um, I, I mean, yeah, I'm a Mel fan, and it's nice to see her here.

But I think sort of getting back to the meat of it, it w- like so often in...

Calm down, Joe.

Um, quite often in Doctor Who there aren't enough consequences for the Doctor's actions, or we never see the repercussions of what happened after the adventure, things like that.

And you know, I mean, obviously the classic example is The Face of Evil.

But I think there is, I think there's something to say that if you're traveling through time and not exactly meddling with history but just, you know, massaging it around the edges, sometimes you're gonna make some terrible mistake completely by action, uh, uh, by accident.

What did you think about Roz's, uh, romantic relationship in the book?

Ah,

ragers! I know.

Although, as you'll find out on Too Hot for TV, I have read slash listened to the prequel book.

But I was trying to think about when I would have first come across this or heard the name Tripods.

And I think it would have been inside a Doctor Who VHS where they'd have...

Half Doctor Who releases of what was available and half other cult titles.

That's where I first would have seen the name of this, Survivor, stuff like that.

what did you go on Dylan what did you what do you what's your overall impression then

War of Titan comics, the Doctor Who ones?

I mean, there's so many.

Where do you start? I mean, what I did see was a whole bunch of Titan and IDW ones in the sale.

They were very much tail-end Capaldi.

Don't get me wrong, they had loads of stuff at full price as well, but I feel like every time I've gone in there, for them, that end run of Capaldi was the hardest lot of comics to shift to.

Because they're all about 99p and I still didn't buy them.

Oh, damning.

One, do you think Doctor Who should be touching the Cuban Missile Crisis? And two, how do you think they did here?

Yeah, the performances are very much sort of like 20th century TV rather than 21st century TV.

And Bev Cressman is now a presenter on QVC and has been for about 20 years.

And she's also really nice.

She's a lovely lady.

So the reason I wrote my first book, Downtime, is I got a job at QVC and I was like, who's that woman? I recognise her from somewhere.

And it was Bev Cressman and it got me watching the old spin-offs again.

And that's how I ended up writing my book many moons ago.

So I'm always on edge about that.

And then a couple of things that are very pivotal to it, I struggled with or didn't think worked.

How about you Dylan? So I, as I said, I've not read this before and I don't know whether this is because for the last year or so, whatever books I've read, be it for your podcast, my podcast, Ian Martin's podcast, I've kind of struggled with a little bit, but I flew through, I'm talking Doctor Who books here, but I just flew through this.

And I think like, I do think it's some of the best that the new adventures has to offer.

Um, It's certainly the best Doctor Who book I've read in a long time.

But it is not perfect, and there are things that I didn't like.

But this is sort of...

This reminded me why I like Doctor Who books.

let's just just pause there roxy davies did two seasons of shooting out while being basically human and falling in love

And whilst he still had a few mythological issues, he really enjoyed the episodes.

Yeah, that's 'cause they're fucking great, and people just, we don't get, like, people don't give it enough chance because it screws with the canon, and everybody hates the, the canon being screwed with.

And, "This isn't like it was before." It's like, yeah, but, you know, I mean, at the end of the War Games, Doctor Who wasn't like it was before.

At, at the end of, I don't know, at the end of most, like, s- ends of eras, the se- the, the show changes.

Like, the end of the Time Meddler, the show wasn't like it was before.

It can add new lore.

At the end of The End of the World, the show wasn't like it was before.

You like a massacre, do you?

Mm.

Um, but it's all so cozy and safe, and I can't stand Jo Grant at all, like, and she's at her most intolerable in this story.

Uh, and I resent being told how great it is.

I...

Like, there are conventions about it.

There's been spin-offs, and multiple spin-offs, making of documentaries, all this stuff, and it's like, sure, it's fine, but just, like, the...

Somebody give some time and attention to another fucking story, please.

I do understand why people don't like this, but tell me why.

[laughs]

[laughs] I, I, I was tempted to put the whole of Trial here, but I thought, no, just pick one.

Um, and what I love about this is it's Bob Holmes.

Bob Holmes is great, but I, I, I like s- some of the lesser loved Bob stories where they're not the instant classic, and the stories just get to do their own thing.

And I love the world he creates here.

I know it's a little bit silly, but I think it, all, all the, all the mechanisms work.

And most importantly, it's Colin and Nicola at their best, and I just love that relationship, and I love Colin's Doctor, but I wish, you know-The, the relationship he has with Mel is great, and the, Nicola and Colin are trying to pull something out those scripts the previous season to make that relationship work.

Not too long for you?

What do you think, Dylan?

Yeah, I think absolutely.

I think, again, everyone pinned their hopes onto this being a, a bold new dawn, which it wasn't, and I don't think it was ever going to be, but maybe we'll come to that in a little bit.

Um, I think it's, you know, it's some of the best-looking, best-produced Doctor Who we've ever had to this day, and at the time it was so exciting.

And also it's about what it's spawned now as well.

And because the show came back and became a massive success, it's no longer a last gasp.

It's, it's just, it's a midpoint between old Doctor Who and new Doctor Who, and it, it's this weird little blip in the middle where for one night only it was this brilliant, mad American adventure show.

There'll be more of that as well