So, so, so before, before that, did you do any packing? Like, uh just how'd you learn

packing all we've done is pilgrim packing like um right out of high school i went with some guys where we had the the pannier bags and we just throw coolers in there and go for long day trips and stuff but i never packed packed i'd never you know tied a diamond and done all that stuff i thought i had i thought i knew what i was doing So we picked up all our stuff and humbly walked back to the truck and loaded everybody up and we tried it again the next day.

Same result.

So super embarrassed.

You know, I was I was pretty proud of myself at that time.

And that was immediately erased.

And I'd been reading articles by this guy named Chris Iyer.

So talk, talk about some of those moments that you're, you were alluding to there.