the encounter, what is the mental snapshot that's going to stay with you, you think, from tonight?

Yeah, Josh, I first want to reference the Booze and Cougs at Lot 18, the lone tailgate lot at BYU.

They would like a word with your whole dry thing.

Sorry.

They found a lot of free game.

Small but mighty, that crew over there.

And, man, I think what's going to stick with me is – BYU fans finally feeling like they won the big one.

Are they not?

I'm not saying I agree with it, but I understand why, and it does make sense because, again, when I'm watching postseason sports like you, Drake, I want to see close, competitive games, and if you can't compete with the best team in your conference, I think they'll think you're not ready for the big dance.

Now, Ronald, I'm sorry I've hijacked your – I feel like I'm hosting now.

But these are really good takes that you've got here.

So the reason I bring that up is – and I think you're spot on.

If we're letting teams in that we know will ultimately get blown out, then why are they in the playoff? What's the point of the playoff? What's great about where I think we're moving with 2014, so what's great about BYU this weekend is – and I know I keep using that word opportunity, but think about – High school football in the state of Texas, all right, in every division, there's like 4A Division I, classification 4A Division I.

It's 142 teams.

No, it's 64 teams make the playoffs.

How do you see this one playing out on Saturday?

But, no, Drake, when you stack up this league against the SEC and the Big Ten, how many teams in the Big 12 do you genuinely believe are capable of making the college football playoffs? And are there any one of them that you believe have a chance to be a national championship contender?

Yeah, there are four Big 12 teams right now that can make the college football playoff.

BYU, Utah, Texas Tech, and then Oklahoma State has snuck itself in there.

And I want to take into account BYU on primetime against TCU won 17 to 10.

They won ugly.

And a lot of the rhetoric nationally is, oh, BYU won ugly.

Man, that's not, I don't got a lot of confidence in that BYU team.

What other team in the Big 12 aren't people talking enough about that you really don't want to see on your schedule?

But no, Drake, when you stack up this league against the SEC and the Big 10, how many teams in the Big 12 do you genu- genuinely believe are, are capable of making the college football playoffs? And are there any one of them that you believe have a chance to be a national championship contender?

Yeah, there are four Big 12 teams right now that can make the college football playoff: BYU, Utah, Texas Tech, and then Oklahoma State has snuck itself in there.

And I wanna take into account BYU on prime time against TCU won 17-10.

They won ugly, and a lot of the rhetoric nationally is, "Oh, BYU won ugly.

Man, that's not, I don't got a lot of confidence in that BYU team." Consider this: when Alabama beat Florida State 50-36, the conversation wasn't, "Oh, man, Alabama's defense." Or, "Oh, man, Alabama won ug-" We've gotta change the narrative around the Big 12 Conference 'cause in the SEC when those guys beat each other up, we always talk about, like, "Man, how good is the SEC? Like, it's a dog fight week in, week out." The Big 12 has its own version of dog fights, and it starts with teams like BYU and Utah, Texas Tech.

As the Red Raiders get better defensively, they become a college football playoff threat.

Utah is incredibly complete, and their skill position group is so deep.

What other team in the Big 12 aren't people talking enough about that you really don't wanna see on your schedule?

But, no, Drake, when you stack up this league against the SEC and the Big Ten, how many teams in the Big 12 do you genuinely believe are capable of making the college football playoffs? And are there any one of them that you believe have a chance to be a national championship contender?

Yeah, there are four Big 12 teams right now that can make the college football playoff.

BYU, Utah, Texas Tech, and then Oklahoma State has snuck itself in there.

And I want to take into account BYU on primetime against TCU won 17 to 10.

They won ugly.

And a lot of the rhetoric nationally is, oh, BYU won ugly.

Man, that's not, I don't got a lot of confidence in that BYU team.

What other team in the Big 12 aren't people talking enough about that you really don't want to see on your schedule?

But no, Drake, when you stack up this league against the SEC and the Big 10, how many teams in the Big 12 do you genu- genuinely believe are, are capable of making the college football playoffs? And are there any one of them that you believe have a chance to be a national championship contender?

Yeah, there are four Big 12 teams right now that can make the college football playoff.

BYU, Utah, Texas Tech, and then Oklahoma State has snuck itself in there.

And I wanna take into account BYU on prime time against TCU won 17 to 10.

They won ugly, and a lot of the rhetoric nationally is, "Oh, [laughs] BYU won ugly.

Man, that's not, I don't got a lot of confidence in that BYU team." Consider this: when Alabama beat Florida State 50 to 36, the conversation wasn't, "Oh man, Alabama's defense." Or, "Oh man, Alabama won ug-" We've gotta change the narrative around the Big 12 Conference, 'cause in the SEC when those guys beat each other up, we always talk about, like, man, how good is the SEC? Like, it's a dog fight week in, week out.

The Big 12 has its own version of dog fights, and it starts with teams like BYU and Utah, Texas Tech.

What other team in the Big 12 aren't people talking enough about that you really don't wanna see on your schedule?

Can you prove it on the field? I don't think it's also that they're so much better than everybody else that we can't compare it to other conferences fairly.

For sure.

I love the tweet from Brett McMurphy last week.

It said, since 2024, Missouri has been ranked in the AP Top 25 poll 32 of 39 weeks, and that spanned Missouri's 1-9 versus ranked teams.

Their only win is versus Boston College.

What I love more than that tweet is the quote tweet.

Brett McMurphy voted for Missouri to be ranked 24 of those 32 weeks.

Are they the best team in the Big 12 Conference? Absolutely.

Oh, yeah.

[laughs] Yeah.

Uh, so that's gonna draw more eyeballs than Arizona would at the 3:30 time slot when you're competing with, say, Mississippi State, Alabama, or Ohio State, Iowa any given week, where most of the country is turning Ohio State on as compared to an Arizona.

We know that as the Big 12.

We understand that we're, we're the odd man out of, one of the odd men out of college football when it comes to viewership.

North Dakota State doesn't bring that.

I, I think if you're Brett Yormark, you want to either expand into a new market like a San Diego, San Diego State, as Ha- Hatch mentioned, or USF.

So I think if you were to poll Cougar fans and say, "Okay, which of these schools, most of all, do you want in the Big 12 in terms of adding a regional brand or regional rivalry back to the mix?" I think it would be the Boise State Broncos.

There's a world where this is possible.

So that's why this is timely right now is because conferences understand there's a 20-team limit.

And so from there, leagues begin to ask, okay, well, how do we get to 20 teams faster than you do and you do so we can get our pick of the litter? And you're right.

You opened the show.

It's a great slate of football this weekend.

But what we've done is taken, because of the Protect College Sports Act, the football itself and put it aside for a day.

We're on three is putting pie-in-the-sky realignment news out there and trying to add these Pac-12 schools into the Big 12.

So I think if... were to pull cougar fans and say okay which of these schools most of all do you want in the big 12 in terms of adding a regional brand or regional rivalry back to the mix i think it would be the boise state broncos

Cincinnati's playing well.

Cincinnati is playing super well, and what happened against Kansas State is they remembered they have Avery Johnson at quarterback.

I think we forgot for a second that Avery Johnson was your quarterback.

Then we, oh, that's right.

This is the same Avery Johnson who can't live up to expectations.

When his college career is done, we all know the name Avery Johnson.

We're going to say, remember the Avery Johnson era of Kansas State? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So who is TCU really? The stinky team that lost to Bill Belichick's girlfriend? Or are they a sleeping something?

It's winning, but not in the style that you want them to be winning if you're Tech.

By the way, I'm starting to forgive Tech for using Castellanos.

I was the guy who was, oh, well, you're going to bring him in and play him.

Well, then I'm going to have a problem with that because at this point, you need it.

You probably need to do it.

We as a conference are fine with bringing in Castellanos a week before the season.

Just go play him at quarterback.

Maybe inappropriate for children under 13.

Trust me.

Yeah, if I can, Ben, you know, and like you said, it's this small, it is, it's a minority, it's a very vocal minority, because as you well know, and I'm sure you've got family members and folks you meet on the street who are like, hey man, I'm a Utah fan, but I like your stuff, I appreciate your stuff, I'm a Utah fan, but I listen, I'm a Utah fan, but I, and I think that's 90% of these real human beings that you're in church with every week, that you're in school with every week, that you work alongside, and you, for a week a year, a couple weeks a year, you jab at them, but they're good people at their core, and They're just – they don't have – they're real humans, so they don't have time to go on social media and start spewing either love or hate.

They're real humans doing real human things.

There are folks who, man, they operate their lives.

And what's so interesting is – and Ben, you'll understand this.

And for folks that – look, everybody out there has got a Facebook.

account everybody's got a social media everybody's posted a sports opinion at some point listening sports radio you know for you and i we get we we get our paycheck hinges on attention it hinges on posting on social media and growing on social media and growing the radio station growing these brands and so for us it's like we've got to be on there you know it's part of our life part of the lifeblood of growing content is to post stuff and so you know as as the job that's going to bring scrutiny and so you're just opening up a world of people to hate what you do and And I tell people this, and I'm glad you brought this up.

Where have you gravitated towards? Outside the Big 12 and looking at college football as a whole, what stood out to you through two weeks?

Trust me.

Yeah, if I can, Ben, you know, and like you said, it's this small, it is, it's a minority, it's a very vocal minority, because as you well know, and I'm sure you've got family members and folks you meet on the street who are like, hey man, I'm a Utah fan, but I like your stuff, I appreciate your stuff, I'm a Utah fan, but I listen, I'm a Utah fan, but I, and I think that's 90% of these real human beings that you're in church with every week, that you're in school with every week, that you work alongside, and you, for a week a year, a couple weeks a year, you jab at them, but they're good people at their core, and They're just, they don't have, they're real humans, so they don't have time to go on social media and start spewing either love or hate.

They're real humans doing real human things.

There are folks who, man, they operate their lives.

And what's so interesting is, and Ben, you'll understand this, and for folks that, look, everybody out there has got a family.

Facebook account.

Everybody's got a social media.

Where have you gravitated towards? Outside the Big 12 and looking at college football as a whole, what stood out to you through two weeks?

Texas, or for the Michigan Wolverine fans that watched Michigan beat Oklahoma and then watched Ohio State choke it away?

You know, I think if you are a Oklahoma State fan, in this case, the excitement of winning a game for the first time in two years.

You lost to Tulsa last week.

Josh, you lost to Tulsa last week.

That can't happen two years in a row.

Your head coach, your 20-year veteran statue guy, Mike Gundy, was fired in the wake of losing to Tulsa.

And then this week, as the icing on top, the cherry on top of beating, before you even got to the whole beating Oregon thing, you watch your rival go down against a team in Michigan that quasi lost to Western.

But how far is that middle versus the top? How do you tier it?

Rich Rod, year two, what do you love about that team right now?

Yeah, I'm always, I'm a pro year two guy in general.

And that's the first, this is the biggest 30,000 foot view of when I sit down and build out my football schedule matrix every year in the big 12.

And last year I had Texas Tech at one and BYU at two.

And I heard, I heard it all.

Oh, Texas Tech's never won anything.

And oh, BYU's not, they're going to regress.

What's the upside of that? What's the most optimistic view of how this can go without Jay Hill?

What stands out to you about this whole scenario?

Well, Ben, in everyone that I've talked to, and I know that you've got plenty of sources that you've discussed this with, and I know Brian Santiago and Kalani Tataki are both individuals, and I've got a separate relationship with each of them, and I'm going to say this going into it.

I appreciate Brian Santiago for how he's treated me and how he's worked with me.

I appreciate Kalani Satake for the exact same reason.

But I don't have a dog in this fight.

I don't have a, oh, well, I've always loved Kalani.

No, I see this from a 30,000-foot view as athletic director and football coach.

Are you concerned about that?

What stands out to you about this whole scenario?

Well, Ben, in everyone that I've talked to, and I know that you've got plenty of sources that you've discussed this with, and I know Brian Santiago and Kalani Kataki are both individuals, and I've got a separate relationship with each of them, and I'm going to say this going into it.

I appreciate Brian Santiago for how he's treated me and how he's worked with me.

I appreciate Kalani Satake for the exact same reason, but I don't have a dog in this fight.

I don't have a, oh, well, I've always loved Kalani.

No, I see this from a 30,000-foot view as athletic director and football coach, and guess what? In the realm of college sports, sometimes athletic director and football coach just don't get along.

And if it's a working relationship, that's fine.

Are you concerned about that?

No.

He was not as explosive, and so I, I think he's crucial to this defense being improved.

If he is the green dot guy and the quarterback on the field, and he should be their best linebacker, if he gets back to where he was a couple of years ago and has that incredible closing speed, and he turns out to be an incredible quarterback for that defense, then that defense can be a lot better.

... may be the best five.

So that's why I don't think Guyton is all that important.

If he turns out to be a really good tackle, that much better.

That's great.

But I'm, I'm fine with Tyler Smith moving out there, even though he's arguably the best guard in football.

Toll.

See, now it's on demand.

Uh, my podcast is kind of a radio thing, I think, but also it's a bit of a TV show, and it's about whatever I want it to be.

It's listening live as it happened, when it happened, with the instant reaction.

Your home for talking sports.

We go back.

The Drake Toll Show, Westwood One Sports Network, and there it will be on demand on your radio anywhere in the country.

I'll see you there.

Equal housing lender.

He's Cameron Stewart, locked on Baylor.

And Cody Campbell did donate a couple hundred thousand dollars to Ken Paxton's Senate race.

And the next day, Ken Paxton said, Big 12, I will sue you.

I stand by Texas Tech.

That timeline is a little fishy.

It has also been made clear that Paxton did not do that.

He's like, I brought you into Texas Tech, and by God, by God, I'm going to send you out.

What's going on with ESPN, FPI, and the media rights that maybe collude in this college football cabal?

Yeah, you know, it all boils down to the ownership that ESPN effectively has in the SEC.

And their response would be, oh, it's not ownership.

But if you think about it this way, you've been a billion-dollar contract with the SEC and ESPN trying to prop them up as the major piece of their media deal.

And what is nuts to me is people cannot wrap their head around the fact if you owned a hundred thousand dollars in home depot stock or a hundred thousand dollars in apple stock you wouldn't go shop at lowe's you wouldn't have a nokia you would give your patronage to those who you're invested in and espn wants to prop up and build up the only conference they have this kind of monetary investment and it's the sec and you reference the tweet i want to i want to double down on that If the number nine team in America in FPI plays the number 14 team in FPI, whoever wins or loses that game doesn't move very much.

You might drop two or three spots to 17.

You might increase a couple spots to number 11 or number six, but you're not going to see a ton of movement.

Where do you stand?

What's going on with ESPN, FPI, and the media rights that maybe collude in this college football cabal?

Yeah, you know, it all boils down to the ownership that ESPN effectively has in the SEC.

And their response would be, oh, it's not ownership.

But if you think about it this way, you've been a billion-dollar contract with the SEC and ESPN trying to prop them up as the major piece of their media deal.

And what is nuts to me is people cannot wrap their head around the fact if you owned a hundred thousand dollars in home depot stock or a hundred thousand dollars in apple stock you wouldn't go shop at lowe's you wouldn't have a nokia you would give your patronage to those who you're invested in and espn wants to prop up and build up the only conference they have this kind of monetary investment and it's the sec and you reference the tweet i want to i want to double down on that If the number nine team in America in FPI plays the number 14 team in FPI, whoever wins or loses that game doesn't move very much.

You might drop two or three spots to 17.

You might increase a couple spots to number 11 or number six, but you're not going to see a ton of movement.

Where do you stand?

Between him and CJ Carr and Arch Manning and Julian Sand and many others, how many quarterbacks do you put ahead of Dante Moore at Oregon?

It, it's not many, and, uh, uh, what I'm looking at out of, you know, hosting Locked On Big 12 is a slew of quarterbacks out of that conference that could possibly come back in college football and, and see a resurgence.

Like a DJ Lagway, uh, or, or Avery Johnson at Kansas State.

Those are a couple of names that are still hanging around in the fold of college football that you don't think of when you think elite quarterbacks.

But at one time, the New York Post is naming Avery Johnson as their Heisman favorite.

DJ Lagway's the greatest high, high school quarterback of all time and a five-star prospect.

Um, also Drew Mestemaker at Oklahoma State led the nation in passing yards last year.

What's been the pinch me interview that you've had in the booth so far this season, the one that stands out the most, and what could be in store tonight?

Do you think there was institutional support with the Brendan Sorsby situation? I don't think that Brendan would have gone forward without true institutional support, not just Cody Campbell, but institutional support from the hierarchy, the leadership, the power brokers of the institution.

Yeah, I think in this case for Sorsby and even for Texas Tech, I continue to question.

Tech fans keep justifying it with, well, now you know if you're an athlete, come to Texas Tech, we'll defend you.

And it's as if you're saying, hey, if you did a really bad thing and want to get away with it, Texas Tech's the place for you.

I don't think they realize that saying that is not helping you.

Probably not the rhetoric you should be spewing right now.

Yeah, Tech stood for their guy.

Do you feel like Colorado will revert to what they've always been, which is a low-tier power four team, power conference team? They're going to be fighting for bowl eligibility year in and year out?

Do you think there was institutional support with the Brendan Sorsby situation? I don't think that Brendan would have gone forward without true institutional support, not just Cody Campbell, but institutional support from the hierarchy, the leadership, the power brokers of the institution.

Yeah, I think in this case for Sorsby and even for Texas Tech, I continue to question.

Tech fans keep justifying it with, well, now you know if you're an athlete, come to Texas Tech, we'll defend you.

And it's as if you're saying, hey, if you did a really bad thing and want to get away with it, Texas Tech's the place for you.

I don't think they realize that saying that is not helping you.

Probably not the rhetoric you should be spewing right now.

Yeah, Tech stood for their guy.

Do you feel like Colorado will revert to what they've always been, which is a low-tier power four team, power conference team? They're going to be fighting for bowl eligibility year in and year out?