So what sort of joint ventures are you seeing are working these days versus what maybe worked five or seven years ago?

Five or seven years ago and prior to that, you could send out an email for somebody and depending on your list size, you'd be generating maybe a hundred, several hundred, high hundreds, eight, nine hundred if you had a big list opt-ins for them.

People are more skeptical.

People are overwhelmed with offers and information, certainly the same types.

And the response has definitely been lower.

But what hasn't changed is that people are still looking for help, whether they realize it or not.

I mean, we all realize we're all looking for something.

narrower in terms of using a specific platform.