right?

And so you needed something to break that pattern of thinking.

So the what if rule is a simple three-step process.

And it comes back to that moment, but also I could see that it happened to all these moments in my life.

And so the first step of the what if rule starts with, pause.

And so it's really the interruption.

And that word interruption, I've come to see, has happened so much in my life in small times and big moments, right? And so there's this, if you can just stop and pause for a second, you'll keep the natural reactions the natural things that you're going to tell yourself or do or tell others.

So how do you help someone stay in that discomfort for long enough for something to shift?

How does a man know the difference between shame that is keeping him stuck versus responsibility that keeps you moving forward?

I think shame is something that most, almost all the shame I find is something we're carrying alone.

right? I mean, I think if, you know, because I thought you were going to ask the question about like remorse, right? But it was really a good point, right? That there's that difference between, you know, kind of remorse and shame.

And I think shame is just, look, you know, I had some, like a lot of men, I had things I would just never going to share with anyone, right? You take them to your grave.

And what I discovered was is, that if I couldn't be honest with someone else, and I found for me, it was making a connection with another man who allowed himself to be a mentor to me.

And I had to learn how to be honest about who I was and how I felt.

And by getting stuff out that I never wanted to kind of tell someone else, you know, shame became kind of remorse or what have you.

Through all of these various versions of you, how has your definition of success changed? Oh, I like