[laughs]

You're asking for the five member states with permanence and veto power to vote against their own veto and permanence.

My particular view, uh, if, if I, if I may, Aubrey, is that I do believe there should be a veto.

I don't disagree.

I don't think, I don't think there shouldn't be a veto.

Um, I'm one of the few people who, who, who, who, who advocate for a veto.

Be-- And the reason why I advocate for a veto, 'cause I don't think you should also be under the tyranny of a majority.

Who is likely to, to, to replace him?

How seriously do we take this

administration? You've got to take it seriously.

One, for the reasons I mentioned right at the beginning, that you don't necessarily have going back and undoing, unraveling what has been done.

The essential seizure of the Trump administration through a deal with a Venezuelan billionaire on seizing 65 million barrels of their oil at a price of, with tax, $3.25 a barrel.

Sorry, $3.60 a barrel and untaxed $1.25 a barrel.

So America will be getting barrels of oil, 65 million barrels of oil at $3.25 to be able to supply the world.

So you have that.

What should be the official reaction to this by South Africa?

Right.

So there are those, um, there are those, those, tho-tho-those aspects.

Now, the, the thing is this, in terms of sovereignty, how sovereignty in a sense works.

Sovereignty in a way is theoretical because it says all countries are sovereign, therefore all countries are equal.

But what you do know is that all countries are not equal.

That's the reality.

And it's not just, it's not, it's not just the reality or it's i-in, in actual organizations, you give certain countries powers that you don't give others.

When we're looking into this thing as, as, in, in a, in, in a global, uh, context, how easy are these things, or how challenging in fact they are for people to get referendums and start their own countries and move away from civil wars or differences that might have been caused by one thing or the other?

Those very blatant, openly false statements that are being made openly on social media suggest that our diplomatic relationships with those two countries who are formerly very good friends of South Africa have deteriorated quite significantly.

Look, first and foremost, I think this is great developments.

To have resilient diplomatic relations, not just diplomatic relations because you find yourself on the same continent, I think you need to go through difficult times like this and the relationship can be better cultivated.

one out of respect for each other's points of view, and that you may not necessarily agree, and you may share certain values, but in certain instances, you may not.

And there's nothing incorrect about that.

So I think that's a good development.

At the same time, what is true though, and let's look at the countries separately, individually.

What does that mean for relations between South Africa and Zimbabwe, countries that are run by sister liberation movements? What does it mean for both countries, Donovan?

Oh,

you must remember your values of

How are you?

I'm fine, I'm fine.

Brother Opri, man, you know, sometimes early this year, I was speaking with one of the clients.

He was a Congo this year by Kilano Mall's office park.

He told me something as we were discussing this 30 March, 30 June, what you call it, shutdown in March, protest action.

He says something, you know, he compares with us South Africans because he told me something that in Rwanda and DRC, this happened to them whereby some Houthis or Tutsis, they came to their country and they established and then at the end of the day, they felt that they are entitled to that land.

but this is still during the day.

And during the day, and I think the one in Germiston, which already, if you recall, Germiston a couple of days ago had problems with allegedly Malawians who had come from Durban, And he'd been brought into Jermiston to be waiting for buses.

And the buses were going to Pretoria or whatever.

They weren't sure where.

And there were all these issues with this as buildup of the tensions were occurring.

Now, also what we know as the buildup to the marches, a lot of pressure was put on the organizers of the marches to be reminding them that the law is the law, etc.

And then they came out.

the song

And so their lack of contrition and their lack of apologizing for their ineptitude, their incompetence, their Infantization of South Africans is not possible because if they were to do so they would be signaling to those that they've partnered with in other parts of the world that they failed in controlling the the hordes the masses

Look Aubrey I'm chewing on it as you as you raise it.

Okay, and to say this that I Let's not be speculative.

How plausible it may sound, but on a speculative platform, it's not necessarily helpful.

One, within the president's speech, I think you get some of the answers to what you are raising, not necessarily on the contrition itself.

but on the locating or the contextualization of the immigration problem.

There's an aspect of the speech where he says, where President Ramaphosa says, and I think correctly so, that our economic challenges is not because of immigration.

Comment on that, Donovan.