Mm-hmm.

Like, the first time I went, it was almost just like a, a holiday camp as such.

Not as, prison wasn't fun, but the way I looked at it, I almost tried to make fun out of it.

Um, and just, like, some of the influences I had, like family influences and, or people I looked up to were very much, not encouraging about it, but just like as such as, "Oh, you, like, you joined in the club", and st- stuff like that.

So it's like, "Oh, yeah, I'm, I'm cool".

Um, so I guess the mindset of it wasn't very much this is wrong.

It's obviously, I know it's not somewhere you want to be, but it's not necessarily a bad place to be.

Uh, talk us through what that was like, and, and why was it different the second time around when you reconnected?