Mm-hmm.

Um, we published a series of technical books and then more recently, um, a book for laypeople, um, on lifestyle medicine, basically, and we had a particular approach to it, uh, called the Pathways Model.

But what was, what I've, what we were promoting with people is that biofeedback is very powerful.

Neurofeedback is powerful.

Hypnosis is powerful.

Uh, with each of these interventions, people come to our office and, and often we're able to help them to moderate their symptoms, recover some state of wellbeing, um, sometimes h- very high levels of wellbeing.

And yet these same patients show up again a year later, two years later, with many of the same symptoms all over again.

So I wonder if we can-- I mean, [laughs] it's probably not as good as, as the real thing, so to speak, but, uh, I wonder if there's a, a role for virtual or-