So from that point, you went on, did you go directly from, segue from that gig to television writing? How was the transition happening? Yeah, I did.

What happened was Slappy got an offer from a guy named Steve Rossi to team up with him.

Steve Rossi and Marty Allen had an act, and they split up.

I remember them.

Steve had come to see us, and Steve said to Slappy, look, I can get us, I think it was 10 grand a week or something at Caesar's Palace, and I'll sing, and you do your act, and then we'll do the first vice president stuff.

and so you know it was a financial decision slappy said he would keep me on as just a joke writer i wouldn't be on stage anymore because he was going to be with steve and i thought no i want to go try hollywood so uh so i gave myself a week and uh i came out here on a sunday and uh And on Monday, I called the only contact I had, which was George Slaughter, who was the producer of Laugh-In.

Yes, he was.

Oh,

Tell them that Derek Shapiro sends you.

You're Don Rio.

I am Don Rio, yes.

And you do, you're a producer for? Oh, I produced a lot of shows over the years.

I worked on All in the Family and MASH and Mary Tyler Moore and The Cher Show.

And I created Blossom and My Wife and Kids with Damon Wayans.

And I worked on Two and a Half Men.

Two and a

Do you think that was purposeful?

15 years later I'm on the putting green at the Bel Air Hot- uh, Bel Air Country Club.

I'm about to play golf.

And, uh, Don Ohlmeyer comes over to me and he says, "Don." I said, "Don Ohlmeyer?" I said, "Yes, no, I, I remember you, Don." He says, "Listen, I owe you an apology.

That show you were doing was really, really good.

I was a drunk at the time and I couldn't see, you know, the forest for the trees, and I subsequently got sober and changed my life and, uh, you know, so, uh, I, I, I want you to know that, that what happened there was my fault and I regret it."

I know, but I'm saying that, that we, if we're in the business of, of trying to make the pilot is art, then why shouldn't the episodes that follow try to be art, too?

Well, it depends on what you're doing.