Can you speak about something as vulnerable as crying? How do you turn that on and off at will? And connected to that, how in your training have they coached you in exploring and controlling the various emotions that we have available to us as humans? At a

fundamental level, it's about being able to be vulnerable in front of an audience.

And that's just as important a skill for a CEO as it is for an actor.

What actors do that is slightly different is that actors have a script and they have... a narrative art that is dictated by the writer.

I'm not in control of most of the choices that I make as the character in the play.

The script tells me what it demands of me.

In terms of my experience of how did I... open up and and find that capacity it's a really scary thing to do whether you know whether it's laughing manically or openly in front of an audience or whether it's you know shedding tears but again and we we keep kind of setting back to this it really does only happen in the present though Um, there was an exercise that, that we did while I was at drama school called a song exercise.

Um, and, um, do you have any kind of advice with that people that, um, maybe have a challenge with, um, self editing or with, um, selecting a bite sized piece to, um, provide to someone else?

Did it fizzle or did you kind of get to the end of it and think, actually, I need to earn a proper living now? I've got to be an adult.

There were a couple of things that were going on.

It was never that clean cut.

So I was also throughout my time at drama school and that early part of my career as an actor, very interested in directing acting.

And so some opportunities came along to work on shows as assistant directors and then start kind of directing my own stuff as well.

And in parallel to that, I then started to get asked to go back and teach at some of the big drama schools.

So I went back to Drama Centre, did some classes for RADA and a couple of the other big drama schools in London.

Also, as an employee or as a subordinate, you also have the responsibility to lean in, but the onus is really on the person who is controlling the conversation that you're saying