We've had artists on, we've had songwriters on, we've had, you know, just straight musicians, like even studio musicians on, but like, what is the role in there of a producer and an engineer? Like, what are those two roles do when it comes to putting a song together?

Well, okay, so we'll do those separately.

They're very separate jobs, much as some people do do both.

So an engineer, he or she operates the desk originally when every studio had a big desk in.

So kind of their job really is to achieve the sonic goals of the producer and the artist.

So if they want something to sound a certain way, they tell the engineer what they're looking for and the engineer then has to achieve that by a combination of microphone choices because they all have their own character.

The different bits of, I mean, you can see behind me, all the different sort of bits of gear that you put equipment through, microphones through, they all have their own character too.

connelly i caved in felt the pulse racing under your skin half this distance working Most friends, hell, but not this time

Yeah.

He is an inc- he's one of the best I've worked with, and it's one of these things about the industry that, um- You hear a lot of people that, generally people that aren't in the industry that say things like, you know, the cream always rises to the top and if, you know, they're...

And it, it, it isn't true unfortunately.

Sometimes people just aren't, don't get the luck, they don't get the break or there's something that happens and, and, and often it's difficult to tell what it is.

You don't know why something hasn't worked, 'cause it should have done.

Uh, it just didn't land, didn't get the audience that it should have got.

You know what I mean? If this had got the right audience, there'd be millions of people that this is on one of their regular playlists and they listen to it all the time.

This is "Peggy" by Neon Pilgrim.

Tell us about that.

Yeah, it's interesting.

So I've been working in recording studio since I was just before I was 21.

So it's nearly about 30 years actually.

So always worked in this creative environment with people that are producing songs, writing.

Not much writing a little bit.

There's always a little bit of writing in the studio, but coming up with performances.

You really reject all that and say a generalist can be a good thing.