Like, how do we, how do we start to transition from, "I'm just gonna chase this ladder to nowhere" into something that we look back on and we're happy with?

with?Well, I think we have to really start concentrating on these ideas of identity and purpose and connections way earlier in our careers, and I'll give you a simple way of doing that.

I'm a hospice doctor, so I deal with people who are dying all the time, and one thing I consistently hear from people dying is at some point they'll start looking back at their life and doing what we call a life review, and they'll say, "I really regret that I never had the energy, courage, or time to do," you know, dot, dot, dot.

And there's always something that comes after that.

And that's a good concept to frame this idea of what's really meaningful to us and, and what gives us a sense of purpose.

The problem is sometimes we chase things like status or our career path or money and forget that those things are kind of easy to define but don't necessarily meet that sense of meaning and purpose.

So in a sense we're spending our time doing those things as opposed to some of the things that might really be more meaningful to us or might be more important, especially as we get older and find that we have less time than we thought.

[laughs]

Does money create purpose? Does it remove purpose?

No.

I mean, money is a tool.

It can be used as a tool to free up your time so that you can do more purposeful things, or it also can be a tool you use to become a better version of yourself and practice that purpose.

So, you know, I obviously have lots of thoughts about how important money is, and I think there's a continuum.

I, I think I've mentioned it on one of these Friday shows before.

The cheapest use of money is to buy things, and we understand the hedonic treadmill, and that happiness comes and goes quickly.

What did you find over the years that most people want to leave behind?

But Jordan, you know, at the end of life, and you wrote a book on this and also had a career in this area, at the end of life, I bet there's almost nobody who says, "I wish I'd upgraded my patio furniture [laughs] sooner."

First and foremost, I agree 100% with Paula.

The data actually is there that people tend to find more happiness long term over experiences compared to things.

And in my opinion, I think there really is kind of a spending or money happiness continuum.

And so I think spending on things are, like, the cheapest thrills, right? We get the immediate dopamine hit.

But we know because of the hedonic treadmill and hedonic adaption that that tends to go away fairly quickly.

I think spending experiences takes you further down that kind of spending happiness continuum, like spending on experiences is probably better and has more lasting effect on you and your happiness.

And it's interesting, Jordan, I mean, I think we're getting at is it can sometimes be these hard moments that help us clarify what matters.

But is it, has it democratized investing, or has it just gamified it? 'Cause I feel like, I look at, like, what Robinhood's gotten in trouble for a lot, like, it's over-gamification to make people do things that might not be the right thing.

I think it's done both.

And here I think we can differentiate kind of basic tech, which is, right, computers and the internet, from, I think, some of the more complex fintech you see out there now, like Robinhood.

So you know, I'm part of Gen X, and so we were right there where we went from defined benefit to defined contribution, right? We got rid of pensions, and we went to 401[k]s, and a lot of people in Gen X didn't really make that transition really well.

So they didn't get their money into their 401[k]s.

They didn't really catch up with the retirement savings.

Now, what we see in millennials is everything's automated now.

When I read this thing about millennials are more comfortable with risk, I thought, "Are they? Or are they just desensitized to it 'cause they really haven't seen a pothole that was longer than just a few months?"