
Dimi Reider
Journalist
1
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Jul 9, 2026
Think Change episode 101: why isn't evidence enough to win the political argument?
2:56
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16:09

Sara PantulianoHOST
How do these narratives become so powerful that they begin to define what society sees as normal or politically possible?

Dimi ReiderGUEST
I think on one level it's because they respond to genuine fear and genuine concern.

Dimi ReiderGUEST
There is rapid change that is happening in all kinds of directions and we respond to change by seeking the least energy-consuming, the most effective way to make sense of the situation, keep ourselves safe, keep our community safe.

Dimi ReiderGUEST
The other way in which these narratives work is that they make people feel heard and listened to and not blamed.

Dimi ReiderGUEST
Trump's magic, which is a dark magic but very efficient, is that he makes his audiences feel seen and heard by someone in power.

Dimi ReiderGUEST
When you come to that with spreadsheets and graphs and facts, it just doesn't compete.
12 MINS LATER

Sara PantulianoHOST
But what... can actually disrupt a dominant or harmful narrative like the one we just heard about? I mean, is it better evidence? Is it alternative storytellers? Is it political leadership, in fact, or something else? And what tends to fail?