And so when you started, what was the first thing you were trying to build, the four of you?

So I had started to, before I met them, I had set out to solve the problem of performance reviews.

So I was like, why is it that we have this once a year annual backwards looking thing when it should be a continuous coaching conversation? And so they came on board to help me build that out.

We actually had some customers, but it just wasn't going anywhere.

And so we realized pretty quickly that it was a universal problem without a universal solution.

And we ended up pivoting to a different idea.

And so we sort of were a bit more disciplined.

Yeah.

... and how you spent your time?

Yeah, I mean, you always look back and go, "I, I would've done things differently." And I think one of the challenges as a CEO, once you get past that very early stage...

So in the early stage, when you're, like, pre-product market fit or, like, early stage revenue, uh, everything's like a, a fire fight.

Every day something new.

You know exactly what you need to do 'cause it's screaming at you, and you know whether you did it right because it's either done or it's not done.

But as you get to a certain level of scale, so, um, uh...

Jason Lemkin wrote this great post where... years ago, where he said, um, growing, scaling a business from $1 to $10 million in revenue is really, really hard, and you'll almost die twice doing it.

Yep.