are those things that you have just like picked up with time and with you know your experience or are there ways for people who maybe are interested in doing what you do um like how could they maybe work on some of those skills cultivate those skills and kind of follow the path that you're

yeah um So I actually did a couple of different pieces of it.

So when I switched over to the program management side of things, part of it was I just learned while being in the role and working from other colleagues and stuff that had been doing it for a while.

But then as I went along, I started actually going With my CPA license, I have to take 40 hours of CPE credits every year.

And I started putting some of those CPE hours towards program management type of classes.

Still keeping some towards accounting and keeping that lens as well of what's going on in the finance world.

But I started doing a lot more training classes and different things of program management.

So just curious if you could share with us how you define leadership, and then if there's any specific leadership philosophies that you've either learned from influential leaders in your career that have really stuck with you.