[laughs]

Well, I, I think, I think crying is a litmus test for whether or not it's gonna work, because I've always been of the assumption that you're not, um, responsible for the music.

You're just a conduit for it.

So if you're doing it properly, you're, you're, you're speaking, um, you know, you're trying to access something that's beyond us.

And so if it, if it makes me react in an emotional way, then that's the, that's the, um, indicator that, uh, it's gonna do the same to, to some other people who are wired similar, right? But at the end of it, there's no, there's no, um, uh, agenda there.

It's not like you're trying to, uh, elicit emotional reactions from anybody.

You're just trying to put into sound something that's, uh, you, you can't translate through vocabulary, I guess, right?

You said with Addicted and Epicloud you wanted to create a cross between Metallica, Enya, and Def Leppard, and I wanna know for both of you- Where do those artists overlap, and how are they different?

Is it fair to call you a workaholic?

I don't think so.

I think that my, process has become so efficient over the years i was a workaholic for sure back in the day but it was even then there was a certain amount of obligation that came with it where i was like i'm trying to get a foothold here as as opposed to like uh i all i want to do is work i mean there was certainly amount of that for sure but but nowadays um nowadays it really became about finding the ways to delegate the workload which which came down to almost just dissecting the process and say okay let's take as an example making a record okay so what is the process of making a record you need 10 songs so what's what's the protocol for it well i've got these um files on my computer i go through it i start to see what's going to constitute a singular vision See if I can populate it with that.

And then from there, it's like, okay, let's get a hold of the artist.

Let's get a hold of the mastering engineer.

Let's get a hold of someone to help with the mix.

Let's get a hold of the team.

So with the burnout and stuff that we've been talking about, how do you feel about going back on the road? Are you apprehensive or?

Uh, what changed in your own life that made you sort of scrap the shock value and turn this into a story of a personal transformation?

Well, I mean, I went through a separation and I, my kid left home and, and, like, you know.

Then, consequently, therapy and then all the things that go into trying to sustain long-term relationships.

I'm not even talking about just romantic ones, I'm talking about business relationships and musical c- slash creative relationships.

It's like as the world, uh, shifted and, and the priorities became, uh, less clear, uh, over the past few years, you know, with pandemic and social political unrest and all this, um, a lot of the things that I think I had kind of, um, uh, relied on, uh, for senses of, like, normalcy or, [inhales] or even, like, you know, dopamine, just all just kinda changed.

And as a result of that, I had to contend with these emotions that came up from these moments of, like, profound, um, um, feelings of loss or, or depression or, or any of these things.

And then to fight through that and to work through that, uh, fortunately, I was surrounded by a team and, and a bunch of fantastic people.

Yeah

[laughs] Do, do you feel like you've changed musically? I mean, obviously, the music has changed from, from there to there, but is that because you've changed? Or is it because you have different ideas in different places that you want to explore?

The music hasn't changed.

Uh, I mean, well, the music style has changed, but the intent for the music is the same.

And I think the difference now in why it is so, you know, um, Moth versus SYL or, or whatever, it's just because the, the nature of how I write has, has been the thing that has not changed.

And that has been, I find something that is compelling, and that's the only impetus to write.

Like, there's, I, I have zero interest in picking up the guitar or writing music if I have no compelling concept.

Like, zero.

Oh.

Hmm.

Just so in the event it was, um, successful enough that people wanted to see it live in that capacity, that work's done.

But also knowing that if, you know, it's a lot for people, Moth, and especially in 2026, so if it doesn't work, it, it's, it works as a, as a vehicle for the, for the, the, the concept.

That being said, the concept is essentially about change.

We use a very overt metaphor with, with the moth, but change not in a, not in an esoteric way.

In the way that I found myself participating in over the past couple of years where, you know, I had a lot of things happen in my personal life, a lot of loss, a lot of change, a lot of, um, realizations that I couldn't hide from the, the pain of.

You know? Like I think in the past I could, I could, uh, intellectualize those emotions.

I mean, 'cause the reports are that it, you've been working on this for more than a decade, right? Is that, is that it took that long to sort of get all that th- through?

Yep

... your past, your trauma, sexually, personally.

However that trauma has manifested, it informs decisions every step of the way of the experience of being human.

And in order to try and find a way to reverse engineer that, there's just, there's no alternative but to go through the fire.

And so The Moth, uh, is, you know, it's a story about transformation.

Uh, but ultimately, it's a dis- it's a dystopian one, because the, it's not a, it's not a, a feel-good process.

The end result of it, where you're able to integrate that, that shadow and you're able to integrate that pain and, and accept yourself is one of, of, of, of cultivating self-love and cultivating self-compassion.

There's a chorus, there's an orchestra, there's a, maybe a, a very brief laundry list of, um, the weird things you're doing, and, um, then we'll have a nice other question.