Could you comment on that and give us your thoughts on whether all churches need an ongoing marriage ministry? And if so, why?

I have so many thoughts.

I could take up the whole podcast with just this.

So I'll try to be clear and brief.

So I've been in family ministry a long time.

I mean, I started in student ministry and love student ministry, still do, and still want to invest in the next generation.

But one of the things I've realized through my own personal life, my own experience, but also through plenty of data that's out there, is if you wanna impact the next generation, you have got to make sure that mom and dad have a stable relationship, a stable marriage.

How is it that the church developed with full-time children, full-time youth, and then marriage at best is the seventh thing down on the education minister's line item on responsibilities?

So what is it that fires you up so much about marriage and why is marriage such a big deal to you?

For me, it's because I have a great marriage.

And I don't say that with the amount of arrogance because my wife and I have had to work on our marriage.

We've had to be very intentional.

But I love the marriage I'm in.

I've been married for 27 years.

We just celebrated 27 years in June.

That's in the church, like, okay, it's time for our marriage ministry to start.