Um, so when you think about that, [clears throat] what, what are the, like, elements? What are the elements that make this glue? I mean, what is it that makes it bring the families together?

Uh, uh, that's a g- that's a good, uh, you know, opening question to kind of describe it a little bit further.

And once again, Rod, I appreciate being on here.

Uh, where we, uh, initially were discussing this and came up with the title, uh, during the conference, which was tremendous, and, and, and appreciate being able to share that with other individuals and explore this further, 'cause yes, I've been involved in this for als- [laughs] four decades now in, in the philanthropic, working with nonprofits.

Uh, and along the way, in helping the nonprofits, uh, you know, meet their mission of doing good in the community, it takes the supporters, the donors.

And what I was continually blessed, uh, during many years of, of, of working with the nonprofits is realizing it's, it's, it's the families that are making the difference, the donors that are making the difference.

Um, and I saw that in many instances, the families were being more transformed through the giving process, the philanthropic process, than the impact on the organization, which seemed counterintuitive at time because, you know, people think, "Well, fundraising is to, to bring the, the dollars in," if you will.

Right.