If you're surpassing 100K, more, right out of the gate versus taking an audience to a page that has $8,000 raised or even $80,000 raised, the listening and therefore the projections are much different.

Yeah, and I'm also, it brings to mind to me, there's different aspects to this, but there are founders who are very impressive.

We have, for example, one that we're working with now who he's an Ivy League graduate, very accomplished speaker.

He is just, anytime we introduce him to someone, they're just happy to speak with him.

He's very apprehensive about promoting himself to his own network, where we've been going in circles with him for months saying, the biggest ROI that you can have in your campaign at this stage is to spend your energy talking to people that you know.

And I think that's why founders tend to underestimate fundraising in two ways.

One is they see it as a relationship problem, which then they hire someone to do outreach for them, someone to do paid ads in the case of your agency, Jason.

And it's really a shame if they shut it off early and don't understand it's going to be multiple touch points and that the results will likely get stronger, particularly as there's closing messaging and a fear of missing out.