dissidents is out now um it is uh look at all these the what 1917 kind of of cartoonists uh in new york and things like that and dealing with all the stuff going on but what was your kind of basis for your elevator pitch for this story that you wanted to tell and why

well it's just this lost story about uh comics history, really kind of a forgotten period of history, period.

I mean, all of this stuff was happening during this era.

And I discovered these cartoonists in college.

I went to Ohio state where the cartoon museum is.

And the curator there, the head curator, Lucy Caswell, who was a prof of mine kind of turned me onto them because I was looking for inspiration and I was looking for, I was doing political cartoons at the time for the school paper and not, Not happy with what I was producing.

I was looking for different ways to express myself.

So how do you kind of narrow that down and figure that out? What's the

That's something that we've seen a lot of in the last few decades.

Yes, except Wilson was successful at it.

I mean, he put most of these publications out of business.

and sent thousands and thousands of people into prison for sedition under something called the Sedition Act, which basically meant whatever the government said it did.

So...

And it was just like if you opposed entering World War I.

Yes.

The good guys ultimately won, or the First Amendment ultimately prevailed.

Yeah, give us a sort of synopsis of the book.

Sure, sure.

So The Dissidence is about a fascinating but forgotten chapter in history and in comics history wrapped inside a suspenseful spy thriller.

So it's the true story of a group of political cartoonists who drew for the provocative magazine The Masses.

It takes place during World War I A period when, and this is completely forgotten, the U.S. government basically put the Bill of Rights on ice.

Freedom of expression no longer existed.

They were following the orders and dictates of Woodrow Wilson, the president, who was a vindictive, thin-skinned autocrat.

Oh, really? Okay.

Talk about a couple, just before we get into your book, a couple of the other cartoons that you reprint from The Masses in your book.

Well, there's a lot by Art Young, who was, um, almost completely forgotten now, but he was the dominant political cartoonist of the day.

Uh, he was a protege of Thomas Nast, who I'm sure you, you know back from the 19th century, the guy who is credited with inventing political cartoons.

He didn't, but he certainly popularized them.

And then came Art Young right after him, and he dominated the field for the next 25 years, until, uh, the trials and the government moved to crush him, and after that, his career was, was kind of greatly compromised.

But his images are just amazing and, and what I love best about these, a lot of these cartoonists, not all of them, but a lot, especially Art, is they weren't predictable.

I mean, yes, Art was a, a diehard socialist, but he described himself as a non-Bolshevik socialist.

But let's talk about the American Protection League.

But, Durf, you want to give us the front counter pitch for The Dissidents?

Front counter pitch.

Wow.

That's a new term for me.

And working comic shops.

The Dissidents is about a really interesting forgotten chapter in comics history.

wrapped inside a suspenseful spy thriller so it's the true story of a group of political cartoonists who drew for the provocative magazine the masses it takes place during world war one when the u.s government essentially put the bill of rights on ice freedom of speech no longer existed in america following the orders of this thin-skinned autocrat Woodrow Wilson, thousands were jailed for sedition, which was a loosely defined off offense that meant basically whatever the government said it did.

But it

um well besides the 50th anniversary uh what inspired you to do a book about the shootings

Well, it's just a story I've always carried with me since, you know, from reading the beginning of the book, my connection to it, which is very small connection.

But it really left a powerful impact on me.

You know, when your hometown is invaded by the military, it tends to leave a mark.

And it's just a story I've always carried with me, you know.

And the curiosity that it sparked, the intellectual curiosity that it it sparked in young me, um, profoundly impacted my life because, you know, I went on to, to be, uh, uh, right from my school papers and, you know, junior high and high school.

And I got a journalism scholarship to Ohio state where I became a political cartoonist and then took that into the pros.

I'd like to hear more about that process.

John, professionally known as Derf, has since created a comic book illustrating his teenage years with Dahmer.

Dahmer, well, he was, he had a pretty rough time here, as did a lot of us.

Um, you know, he was a constant victim of harassment and abuse [laughs] and was beat up a lot, especially early on.

Later, you know, they sort of got bored with him, but, uh, um, early on I imagine he had it pretty tough.

When he did become the center of attention, it was accidental.

Well, I was on the yearbook staff along with a couple other of my friends.

So we would goad Dahmer into sneaking into various photos for the yearbook, and one of those was the National Honor Society, which obviously he was not a member of.

And, uh, when the advisor caught a look of it [laughs] as we were pasting it up, he blacked his face out of the photo, which they then ran, which is sort of a, a symbol of his wasted youth.