Even if you make no money to give away.

And then it's extrinsically meaningful if the, if the context of the work allows you or the work itself allows you to do something that is meaningful, but it's not the work itself.

And so I'll give you a quick example.

In one of our interviews, we had a, um, a, a hotel housekeeper who was talking about...

And actually, this interview I didn't conduct because, um, this woman spoke Spanish, and so we had somebody conduct the interview in Spanish, and so I was reading a translated transcription of the interview.

And she was saying that her work was meaningful, and I expected her to say something like, "My work is meaningful because, as a hotel housekeeper, I can make rooms really nice and clean for people, and so when travelers are weary, they can rest in a nice place." That would be a very intrinsic way of talking about her work.

She didn't talk about her work intrinsically.

But start us off, and Mark may wanna add something.

Let

me kind of try to address that real quickly.

So I am a professor of management.

I have, you know, I teach in a business program.

And I go to these academic conferences and there's all sorts of things that people are talking about with respect to management.

Nobody's talking about religion.

And yet, we know that 75% of the population in the United States is religious and cares about their religious identity.

and i just find that they're open to so much questioning and discussion about spirituality and so that is going to i think provide a kind of gateway um into workplaces and denise has studied this stuff there's now more workplace chaplains and yeah yeah so people want to do their spirituality at work in ways that i don't think we've seen quite well and i think