And do you kind of feel like you inherited something from both of these women about birth, death and the female body? And how was that sort of encapsulated and informed your creative work?

Yeah, I mean, it's just the older I get and the more I realize what they did, the more kind of like amazing it feels to me, you know, to have had that experience.

kind of in my ancestry, you know.

I didn't really fully realize that as I was growing up.

I heard the stories.

I grew up with those stories of both my grannies on both sides attending births and also then attending the dying and the dead.

And they would wash the bodies and they would give the last rites and they would do all that thing.

And I think that when you see more artists create new create works and bring through deities and beings that empower women helps you feel less lonely and helps you you know sort of move through the trauma and I was wondering how do you feel about the idea that art can heal trauma do you think that art can heal trauma or do we sometimes ask art to repair what governments and institutions refuse to confront And then a few questions about Growler