Um, when, when you've gone through these interviews and you've spoken to so many individuals, what were the themes that sort of like stood out for you instantly that you wanted to bring back into your book?

That's a great question.

There were definitely three findings that came out of it.

You know, these women were ultra successful, and I wanted to find out why and what made them successful.

I think the first was that they had very long-term perspective on building relationships.

They knew that it wasn't gonna be something that happened overnight, but that if they stayed in touch with people, and they were empathetic towards them, and provided them with, with value in those relationships, something would happen.

So they had a very long-term perspective.

Okay, rainmaking in principle, what is your view on that in terms of law firm growth?

by all this because I think it's such a huge task ahead.

Thank you.

No, you know, with both books, I don't think I knew what they were going to say until I started the research.

You know, the first one I met with law firm marketing department heads and partners and in general, and law firm leaders.

And like Mitch Sulke was wonderful at Oreck and spent a lot of time speaking with me.

And that was a great experience.

I learned a lot about different kinds of firms.

So would you care to shed some light on what is

What are some of the sort of foundational aspects that big law's looking for from a communications strategy that might not be at the top of everyone's mind?

Well, whether it's communications or business development, it all needs to start with what the firm's strategy is.

So if the firm is expanding into new markets or defending their position in a certain practice area, those kinds of things really need to be kept in mind before you develop any kind of tactics.

So once you figure out where it is that you wanna go and what it is that you want to accomplish, then your business development and your marketing communications have to follow suit.

And marketing communications today can mean social media, it can mean communicating with alums, communicating with existing employees and lawyers.

So it can mean a whole bunch of things.

Laterals.

Right.