That's probably actually the best example, Kelly, is the next stop, let's say on a bus, because often you would have to depend on a driver who might or might not even remember that you're on the bus.

Debbie Gillespie.

I'm a consultant in intuitive wayfinding, vice chair of the Accessibility Advisory Committee for the TTC.

Intuitive wayfinding for people who have vision loss is a system whereby you may not have a clue where you're going.

You know where you want to go, but you've never been there before.

If you're walking on a path and you stray from the path, You know, I'm not going where I should be.

Something just doesn't feel right.

Debbie, what does the TTC, Accessibility Advisory Committee, think about when making recommendations?

Debbie Gillespie was one of the four female teachers who were charged but didn't end up in court after the charges were dropped.

When I was unemployed and that sort of, "What am I gonna do with myself?" I, I thought I, I wanted to join a yoga class 'cause I thought that'd be a good healthy thing to do.

And it was at the Women's Center.

And I got a phone call from somebody there saying, um, I couldn't go after I put my enrollment in.

And I said, "Why not?" And she said, um, "Because there are people here that won't...

don't feel comfortable having you in the class."

And for 30 years, Debbie has felt unable to do anything about her situation.

I remember somebody saying to me that theoretically the system worked.

Debbie was that woman outside the courthouse.

I remember one day coming out and somebody standing across the road and miming shooting us.

There was a couple of places in Christchurch where there was really, really big graffiti.

There was, like, a, you know, six-foot paling fence with letters, really huge, saying, "The women are guilty." I was terrified.

I mean, I remember feeling like, um, you know, I'm gonna come home and find, I don't know, my cat nailed to the door or...

You know, I d- [laughs] Yeah, reading too much crappy fiction.

Okay.

Debbie listened in horror.

Debbie, who was 29 at the time, found the experience really invasive.

Neville Jenkins and another detective who I can't remember, they behaved appallingly.

They really did.

I'd had a very major relationship break up six months beforehand, and I'd been writing a diary that I probably would've burnt.

You know, it wasn't for anybody to read.

It was just lots of angry rantings and all that kind of stuff.

They stood by my bed, and Neville Jenkins picked it up, flicked through the pages while I was standing there, read a bit, and then laughed and said to this other woman, Karen, "Ha, have a look at this." You know, just, like, so unnecessary.

So we didn't, um, get in the car until a bit later in the morning, and we went into the police station.