Mm-hmm.

From there, I ended up, um, moving into, uh, higher education.

Actually, private education in the Bethesda, Maryland area.

Enjoyed that very much, and sort of got the bug to stay in education, so then moved into higher education.

In higher education, um, very different environment, and I really got the bug to, to stay in it.

There was a lot of need for it, so I had several opportunities as a chief information officer to move around in higher education.

Um, I spent about 20 years in higher education, and then I worked for a company who was housed in Chicago, and they ended up convincing me to come from DC to Chicago, and I spent about seven years there.

Yep.