And Dawn, how did you come to develop this area of interest as an academic?

Well, gosh, that's an incredible story that you just told.

I think that my journey is probably a little less exciting than that.

Where I grew up, there wasn't a lot of diversity.

I grew up in a very small town in the Midwest, and probably the most exotic person was my mother, who was from England.

Yeah.

But there wasn't a lot of difference.

And is that, is that valuable?