Okay, so why don't you walk me through how you came to be at this position?

Boy, that's-- You know, I'm old now, so, uh, it's a long story.

So, uh, I started off in municipal engineering.

Uh, I, um, w- I graduated from, uh, University of Illinois Engineering, and my first real job after college was, uh, as a, an engineer for the city of Effingham, which is my hometown.

And I worked primarily on, like, water and sewer projects.

Um, but while I was doing that, uh, you know, in school, you don't find out, uh, you, you learn things about yourself after school, and I found out that I was good at, uh, talking with citizens, and anytime someone was mad, I was often the person that the city would send out to talk to them.

And so, uh, that experience at the city of Effingham made me realize that, uh, I wasn't so much a, a...

Mm-hmm.