When you made that pivot, maybe it'd be helpful for us to understand the scale you're operating at that time.

So it was funny.

We had started to get some real traction.

I forget the exact revenue call it 200 million a year, probably making around 50 million a year in EBITDA.

Had some debt, but not a ton.

Had brought in some good private equity partners.

And the premise was how do we build this customer lifecycle marketing platform? And sort of I had to go into this board meeting that gets talked a lot about around here.

As you walked out of that meeting or as you walk away knowing that decision has been made, you're going forward, what's your state of mind? Are you terrified? Are you excited? Is it a mix of both? What's going on inside your head? The good and the bad news, Fred, about

What has it been like operating at the level of success that you've operated at? And I guess more broadly speaking, how did all of those experiences you can talk about kind of your early career lead you to be the CEO of Zeta?

Well, first of all, like most people, this will sound odd, I don't really feel successful, right? I mean, I don't feel not successful, but I feel like I'm doing my thing every day.

And I wake up and I joke to my, I turn to my wife and I say, time to make the donuts, referring to a very old commercial for Dunkin' Donuts.

And my wife, for some reason, still gives me the perfunctory laugh, which is great.

But, you know, you wake up every day and you do what you have to do.

And I would say, first, you know, Zeta is my, I think, sixth or seventh company.

It depends on how you count it.

Very hard to imagine that.

Yeah.

You've also got Kohl's.

You've also got a bunch of other places.

I believe Zeta is gonna be one of the mega megas.

Like, we really believe we're building the next sort of generational changing marketing company and technology company.

The biggest value we drive is today, for every dollar a customer spends through our platform, we return an average of 600%.

Our goal is to get that to 1,000% with Athena.

Mm-hmm.

Now, how many times have you guest hosted or just a, on, on the, uh, on the Carson show?

A lot, a lot.

I did, I, you know, the number that they, that they had on the computer was, like, 140 times, but I don't think that even had all my guest hostings.

But a, a lot, 'cause, you know what, Gilbert, I started with, with Johnny right away, like, in the, in the '60s I was on with him, and in New York.

And, uh, and then we hit it off, and, uh, you know, w- within, like, another...

I had another appearance after the first appearance, and I was still...

I'd just come from Second City, so I did some stuff I had done at Second City, and for that time it was very unique and original.

Wow.