I'm curious, David Sampson, should the NFL retroactively abolish O.J. Simpson from the Hall of Fame? That applies to other sports as well, but in this case, I'm curious what you think.

There was a committee that was started at Yale where they came up with a way to judge how you decide when to rename buildings or take down statues, when you would go back in time and say, wow, that person was a racist or a rapist or a murderer.

Do we adjust? And there's an entire sort of rule book that now people are following with how to navigate your impossible question, Greg, because people will say, oh, just it's so easy.

Just change the name of the building or get rid of O.J. Simpson, just erase him as though it didn't happen.

And things aren't necessarily as easy as that.

So applying what I know about the system to O.J. Simpson, the answer is no.

The answer is that he is OJ Simpson.

The aide said the NIL bill is dead on bleeping

about

all the managers who I fired and the GMs, et cetera.

And what you want as a team president or owner changes from year to year based on different circumstances that sometimes have nothing to do with baseball at all.

They could have to do with how the owner's business is doing or how the owner's marriage is doing.

There's a lot of weird factors that go into making a budget and then making decisions during the course of a year to add or to subtract.

And especially now with what's going on in labor and really the uncertainty surrounding next season, the uncertainty surrounding what the rules of engagement are going to be.

It wouldn't make sense to me if I were running the team to hire a five million dollar manager and start paying him right now because I just don't know exactly what the manager is going to be doing.

Then it's big noon Saturday as UCLA takes on Minnesota Saturday on Fox.

It's one of the great

mysteries to me why both management and players are engaging in such an outright PR war to curry the favor of public opinion when, A, it doesn't matter inside the room.

It just makes you feel better.

And, B, it's not even relevant to the economics of the game.

Nobody is, in my opinion, worthy of empathy.

But that's... my situation when I think about any of the arguments that happen between managements and unions.

I think both sides have protections in place.

I would argue probably the preponderance of the money still comes from cable fees that go to sports teams.

What did you make of all of that?

Yeah, they felt as though Rasmussen does better.

They had the numbers that said when he gets the extra day of rest, where he had like 18 starts this year with that extra day of rest, that he will perform better.

And they liked having Nick Martinez in Game 1.

He had a great year.

He was a great one-year signing by the Rays.

But to me, you go with your best in Game 1.

What part of the discourse with the scheduling, the blaming going around, have you heard that has been the most misunderstood, inaccurate part of this discourse?

But what he was doing behind the dish to control that pitching staff, to win all of those ABS challenges, it's one of the more special individual runs through a full postseason that you can find, especially as a catcher, David.

Yeah, the last catcher with an MVP was Sal Perez in 2015.

It's just hard to find catchers who are that good.

And what Pudge did for us in 03, the MVP was Beckett, but Pudge was in command of the game.

Having a good catcher, I cannot overestimate how important it is to have a good catcher on your baseball team.

It makes every difference in the world.

You need your catcher to be the smartest guy on the field.

I want to talk about this team right now.

Never take them serious again.

You know.

Boy, I really hope that you're joking with that question.

No, I'm serious.

It's a four-game losing streak to a freight train.

And that happens during the course of a season.

Even the Brewers this year lost four in a row, four out of five a couple times.

What goes through your mind when you think of Milwaukee winning a World Series?

It's such a game of inches in Major League Baseball, and it's something that the Brewers have been able to take advantage of really all season long, but particularly here in this postseason.

Yeah, so go back to today's Nothing Personal, Jeremy, and right about the first five minutes of the show, I show that play and go through it because so many things happened that when you watch the highlight, you pay attention to.

You pay attention to the fact that Valade was not holding on Yelich, so he had a huge secondary lead.

You look at the fact that Williamson at second base at the fourth play was not fully stretched the way you do at second base.

You play it like a first baseman, but Williamson didn't stretch, so the ball takes a quarter of a millisecond longer to get into the glove.

You look at Caminero, who is going to his left, had to spin and couldn't get as much on the throw to second base as he wanted.

He wouldn't have gotten Contreras at first.

David, it is so special to see performances like that one in a World

What is your opinion on this move by the Rays?

Yeah, I would have started Rasmussen and they wanted to give him an extra day's rest.

And everybody needs rest this time of year.

Everybody's arm hurts.

Everybody's on fumes.

But I'm going with my best always to start the series.

Now, Nick Martinez is no schlepper.

That's true.

Give me some of the things pay and labor related that are going to happen here after the World Series that are something that people are not hearing elsewhere and that you have not yet said on Nothing Personal about what's about to approach here after what is potentially a very fun World Series that nobody might watch because of the two teams involved.

I think people are very, very confused about what the reality of the situation is in baseball.

And you've got owners coming out, including Hal Steinbrenner today, who met the media and talked about how he is completely in favor of every labor proposal of a salary cap.

And you've got total unanimity amongst the owners.

And I'm here to tell you that that unanimity is not going to last throughout the lockout.

There is going to be owner-v-owner issues that are going to have to be dealt with prior to negotiating a real collective bargaining agreement with the players.

Because what's going on now is not a negotiation.

What's the movie you're reviewing for us this week, David? Notre Dame, guys.

The union's sitting there kicking their feet back, smoking them if you got them, going, what do

you mean salary cap, right? Yeah, I would think they are, but they shouldn't be.

Much like I don't think the owners, if the Dodgers had beaten the Brewers, were walking into the negotiating room and saying, hey, look, we told you so.

The point that the owners have made is it's not about one year.

It's about a pattern.

It's about a much larger subset over decades.

What does it take to win a World Series? You can make it to the playoffs, but once you're in the playoffs, you really have a chance to go all the way.

Who's the guy, you mentioned Bauer, is he the guy that has to be the star for the Brewers or is it,

[laughs]

[upbeat music] Folks, listen up.

You know what nobody thinks about until it ruins your entire afternoon? Glare.

You've got the TV exactly where you want it.

You've got the couch.

You're ready for seven straight hours of football, and then the sun moves three inches, and suddenly you're watching the game like this, like, oh, I'm leaning, I'm, I'm squinting, I, I, ugh, trying to figure, is that a touchdown? And instead of fixing the actual problems, we'll just live with that.

Yeah, around 4:15, you just can't see the TV.

Bob Iger is not leading Disney presently.

[laughs] Right?

I can't believe they're gonna win the pennant.

I can't believe that I had this series so wrong, because I got sucked into the narrative that the Dodgers are the two-time defending champions, and experience will overshadow the fact that they're not hitting, that the Brewers are better in all aspects of the game.

Knowing that we all knew that, how did I not pick the Brewers to win the series?

Yeah

... and the Brewers have a lead.

And you're thinking, "Here we go again.

How is this possible?" Blake Snell made one mistake, but guess what? He settled down and pitched six perfect innings, and the Brewers were not able to add on at all.

How would you explain what this bill is asking

for? The three branches of government exist for a reason.

And when you are not satisfied with what the judicial branch is doing, and there have been a bunch of cases involving the NCAA, and the result of those cases has not really been what the NCAA would want.

So when you are in a position where one branch is not being helpful, you go to another branch.

And if you go to the legislative branch, that's going to trump the judicial branch and the executive branch.

If you can get a law passed by both, obviously by Congress, which is the House and the Senate, the exact same bill.

And we're not even close to that yet.

And that to me is like,

Mm-hmm.

That's never happened in the history of Andrew Friedman or any GM.

I never walked into the clubhouse and said, "Oh, look at the lineup today." We always know what the lineup is before it gets posted.

That's one.

Two, they're not benching Ohtani.

Is it possible that they will keep him out of the lineup against a lefty and make it, "Hey, take an extra day off.

You have two days.

It's gotta be an art.

When you hear Dan this morning or anyone say it's bad for baseball if we're going to have Milwaukee-Tampa Bay or Milwaukee-Cleveland in the World Series, is that true?

So that means it's all about Milwaukee.

Listen, that is such a tired opinion that the Dodgers are bad for baseball, that small market teams winning is bad for baseball, that the labor deal is going to be in jeopardy if the Dodgers win the World Series or if the Rays or the Brewers or the Guardians win the World Series.

The fact is that it's not related to bargaining at all, no matter what.

the owners or the players say, this World Series, this champion does not impact the labor negotiations one bit.

In terms of interest, John Skipper has said it and admitted it from day one.

He would like the Red Sox to play the Yankees every game of the year, twice on Sunday.

Do you buy that?

Are the Dodgers toast now, David?

If you looked at those two teams and ignored their payroll.

So, so forget about the story of the Dodgers have the biggest payroll, they're so bad for baseball.

All they do is get player upon player.

Don't worry about the Brewers.

They're in the smallest market around.

If you just looked at the two teams, I think we'd all agree the Brewers are the better team.

What have you made of those changes? And when you hear, like in stories in the Miami Herald yesterday, that it's because of, of influence, uh, social media and the way the team is presented, that that has played a major role in these changes, w- do you buy that?

Let's combine the two things.

Dan, have you been made very much aware at all of what happened with Disney suing the government? Because you need to get licensed by the government, by the FCC, in order to have ABC networks.

And you apply for those licenses in increments of multiple years.

But all of a sudden the FCC said, "Hey Disney, we need you to renew your license right now.

You have to start the application process." And the reason they did it, according to Disney, is that our president did not like what ABC News was doing, didn't like the choices they were making politically.

And Disney said, "Hold on here government, we are suing you." They went to federal court, and they're gonna win by saying that the president and the government is violating our First Amendment rights to operate.

We don't need to get a new license.

... and then all of a sudden, uh, it's something that I wanna watch, but I don't know what it's about.

W- what is the first thing that comes to mind when you think about the Yankees this morning?

The first thing is I don't know what a clean sweep is versus a dirty sweep.

I'm not familiar with that.

A sweep is a sweep.

I'm a consequentialist.

It was all dirty when you get swept, and the Yankees have to look in the mirror this morning and just realize they got beaten by a better team.

And I can tell you from experience, that just sucks.

Absolutely.

Uh, is that something that front office has to address?

Well, they ought to think about it, because the fact of the matter is that they did play well, obviously, after their tough start to make the playoffs.

They had a terrible September, which continued with the last two games of September, which is why they went home.

But the funny part is, players on teams that are fully analytic, and you can look at the Marlins, you can look at the Red Sox, and you can look at a bunch of teams that really are 100 zero, it turns out players aren't fully loving that.

And it manifested itself with what Contreras said and what Sonny Gray said.

Because it's not that Chad Tracy in the middle of the game was like, "Oh, I've got the best idea.

Let's pull Sonny Gray here.

Okay.

So what is the latest installment that advances the story? What's interesting about the Boingo episode?

What's interesting is that Kawhi Leonard actually did do something where with Aspiration it was a no-show job.

He got paid millions of dollars to do nothing.

At Boingo Wireless, he got paid over $600,000 to go sign some autographs on an Army base in Camp Pendleton.

But the question is why would he go there? What's the relationship of Camp Pendleton and Boingo Wireless? What's the relationship of the Clippers and Camp Pendleton and Boingo Wireless? Is it possible that Boingo Wireless public company was involved in the salary cap circumvention allegedly? Well, according to Pablo's reporting, and according to what we found out on the most recent episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out, there was an moment when Kawhi Leonard was signing autographs for an hour, getting paid an amount of money, and it's all connected to the Clippers, when the Clippers position has been, "I don't know what you're talking about.

We never get involved in sponsors.

We never get involved in any of this." And this specific incident was not covered by Wachtell, who in their report, 36 pages, giving the biggest penalty ever handed out to an NBA owner, they specifically stated, "But wait, there's more," as though they took the line from Pablo himself.

I think it's being talked about very poorly.

Yep.

Now, Boyd did stuff he doesn't normally do, giving up home runs on changeups.

Michael King was unhittable, and he got offensive support, and they didn't have to use Mason Miller, which is great in a series of three games in a row.

Hope maybe only two if the Padres win today.

Just everything went well.

But if you're the Cubs, you've got the best offense in baseball.

Don't panic.

It's amazing

How many bounces? Four bounces? Four sponsors? David?

I think it's important to note that in Kawhi's statement after the punishment came out, he was very careful not in any way to acknowledge his knowledge of any salary cap circumvention, of any issues with any endorsement deals of any kind because I assume he started listening to an actual lawyer and someone who pointed out that there is some exposure here for Kawhi Leonard when it comes to the SEC investigations.

And while you turned on Ballmer and while you got away with $700,000 slap on the wrist and you get to have your contract not voided and end up in Toronto with an extension, do yourself a favor and shut the yapper.

Perhaps.

It's hugely important to keep in mind that it's not that the number that should make anybody's hair stand up on the back of their head.

It is what would be the reason for Boingo to actually agree to that? Because a player getting 600 plus grand to go make an appearance, I'm not going to tell you that that doesn't happen because I've seen it happen.

I've made it happen.

What I am going to say is, what's the payoff? What is the provenance of such an agreement? Why would Boingo do it? Because they want to be associated with the military because that is part of their community budget where they get associated with community events and troop related events.

Uh, have you ever had anything in sports, as we're coming up here on the anniversary, uh, uh, have you had anything in sports that has hurt you even close to that?

No, of course not.

When you get a call from Fish and Wildlife, and, uh, it was Mike Hill on the phone and, and, uh, Fish and Wildlife, and you have to identify any markings on a body because the view is it can't be your pitcher, Jose Fernandez.

That's impossible.

I was a, you know, David Samson, a Jewish guy running a baseball team, and I said to the guy, "There's a million Jose Fernandezes.

This can't be." And then I said, "Is there a bicycle tattoo? Obviously not, but if there's no bicycle tattoo on his leg, then it's not our pitcher." And I remember where I was when I was told, "Yes, I am looking at a bicycle crank tattoo," and that's when I knew that it was Jose, and I couldn't believe it.

And it was early morning on Sunday, September 25th, 2016, and I said to Mike, "Get dressed.

Uh, can you describe what that was like being there?

Good

... because I expected them not to be under 500 with 10 days to go.

I expected them to be a, not just competing to win a pennant, I expected them to actually be in the World Series and win the World Series.

That's where my head was before the season started.

And it, it's like they've got the hangover that sometimes, and often comes with the World Series-winning team.

And that's why it's been so hard to repeat, and the Dodgers doing it twice in a row is really remarkable, and going for three in a row for the first time in, you know, 25 years when the Yankees did it.

So I'm worried that the Blue Jays feel like they already won something, because they haven't.

Absolutely.

Col- other teams and fans of those teams are victims.

So now we're getting to something.

Now we're getting to something, because can we prove, can a grand jury actually hear evidence that Mickey Arison was a victim of the salary cap circumvention? Because Mickey Arison couldn't sign Kawhi Leonard because he wasn't willing to break the rules.

So Mickey Arison would sand- would stand on the press conference, on the dais, and say, "Here I am, the victim." Is that compelling for a grand jury or than a regular jury? My answer's probably not.

What about fans? Man, I'm a fan of the Lakers, and I am a victim here because we couldn't sign Kawhi Leonard, and it would've been great to have him.

I don't love that theory either, Dan.

The theory that I love is the victims here are the shareholders of the public companies, Daktronics, Boingo Wireless, who were engaged with Steve Ballmer in salary cap circumvention in a way that was not properly disclosed to any of the shareholders or to anybody within Steve Ballmer's circle, the league.

Even Elon Musk, by the way, his whole relationship started because there was an inquiry and it's like, "Hey, how do I make this better? I'll just be friendly with Trump." The chances of this administration using this against Steve Ballmer?