But it kind of trains the nervous system in a way, you know, to this heightened experience of like danger, fear and worry that... actually we don't even realize that is is there or present with us it just becomes this as you say i often say it's like the soup that we just grow up in you know it becomes normalized that oh people shout and scream and sometimes the police are called and sometimes ambulances are there you know like for yourself there's drug dealers there's crimes there's people talking about killing and murder it just becomes for what you know maybe many of the listeners are when you grew up and people were talking about what holiday were going on and so forth this becomes a normal part of kind of conversation and I'm really interested in what was the moment that you kind of looked and thought oh I want to change something here or something this doesn't seem quite right what was that like for you

Yeah, and there was one complete instance where it completely changed.

And there should have been many more.

In my life, there was three knife attacks.

I mean, like, nearly stabbed.

So there's a divine intervention in many situations where I should have been dead.

You know, a couple of car crashes, car rolls, three attempts on my life with a knife.

What are the kind of first steps that you, you kind of take a man through or point him towards?