What's the, the driver for them to transition to something like this?

Well, uh, having, um...

I think there's, there's definitely a, an aspect where they're looking at sort of a, sort of loyalty, uh, bonus for this.

And of course, once you make things convenient for people, they're more likely to come back, you know.

So, so that's always good.

Uh, especially if you're que- you know, queuing up for the footy, you know, you got a special express lane.

That's nice.

Are there, are there risks associated with that, David?

Everything's fixed.

Yeah, it's good in theory, Gareth, isn't it? But the reality, I'm sure we've all been there, the reality is not quite that.

And so maybe it's because you didn't go through the right processes to hire in the first place.

Of course, that's one area.

But maybe you did do the right thing.

Maybe you did screen the CVs properly.

Maybe you had a great interviewing process.

certainly um okay i've got one question ready which is the overall question and i totally understand if you're going to come out and say like i couldn't possibly answer it so what needs to be designed in a business david before you can actually talk about headcount increase

What do you think to that, David?

So I think that's a really interesting point, Valerie, that when...

So when, when, when companies begin to grow, uh, and, and they're strong businesses, they, they, they're small, but they're strong.

They've got, you know, they're making money, they're making profit and, and yet it's not, it's not quite growing in the way they want it to grow.

And maybe they, maybe they've recruited more people, so maybe they've expanded the team, but it's still not happening And what, what seems to happen is that...

I mean, and I, and I can make, give several examples, but the, what seems to happen is that the, the founder has, has a passion for whatever it is.

Let, let's say it's a business with a purpose-driven business, and so the people that they recruit into the company share that same passion.

... onto a, a second wind or whatever.

You want to start by telling us how you started your career, where you're from, where you are

now? Sure, sure.

So I'm from Australia.

I was born in Sydney, met my wife.

I studied in Sydney.

We had our children, we had our family, four wonderful children.

I studied law at Sydney University.

that.