But there's, there's something very interesting in what you do with those scenes and, you know, I wonder if you could say a little bit about them, and then perhaps we could even go to and watch a scene from the film and, and think about it together.

together.Absolutely. Yeah, I can speak to basically what the origin of, of the project was, which would answer this question, which is that I remembered watching To Catch a Predator.

I had never thought to myself, "I'd like to go out and make a documentary about that show." I even at some point learned about why it was ultimately canceled, which is that assistant district attorney in a wealthy Dallas suburb who was, um, embroiled in one of the conversations that the show would host with decoys.

And the police and camera crew showed up to his house, and he ultimately took his own life, and the show was, was, was canceled shortly after that.

And for me, um, I, I remember even still thinking, "Well, well, I don't know what a documentary about that story would be other than basically yet another salacious true crime narrative that's asking us to point fingers at something that happened, and to what end?" is kind of the question I'm always trying to ask myself as a filmmaker.

What is the goal of peeling back layers of an onion, ex- except to cry? Is, is kind of how I think about it sometimes.

But then what, what changed things for me was finding the online fandom communities for To Catch a Predator, which for two decades have been collecting raw footage from the show.

And, um, so yeah, I'm, I'm just curious also about how you, you all think about access and, and compromise.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm a documentary filmmaker.

In that moment, I'm thinking to myself the way a lot of documentary filmmakers are of, you know, I might want to speak to this man afterwards.

I might follow him as a character.

My cameras are rolling.

We ask for a release form.

... and far less time confronted with the harm that these people are attempting to do.