Like these guys are like, when, when you stay up all night like that, I mean, that's not...

No, it's not, it's not good for your nervous system at all.

And so I'm seeing, like, physical symptoms.

I'm starting to get, like, anxiety.

I'm starting to deal with all these, like, different, like, demons that I, I don't know, like, what's going on.

And, you know, my mind isn't thinking that, like, it has anything to do with my drinking or drug use because I can still kind of, like, convince myself at that point that everybody else is doing that, and maybe not as much as I am, but it's just the normal thing to do.

So I start thinking I got anxiety and depression, and I'm trying to, like, you know, talk to people I know in the medical field, like, "Hey," like, "what do you think is going on with me?" I'm meeting with psychiatrists.

Like, like-

Yeah.

Coming back to reality after experiencing the highest of highs and the lowest of lows and teaching yourself to be okay with just – everyday life and sunsets and oceans and views and, you know, scenery on a run, you know, it's just, that was a huge transition for me, but also something that is incredibly powerful when, when you look back, because it's like, I single-handedly rewired my thinking to be okay with just not needing to wake up and put a chemical in my body to feel excited every day.

I just naturally at baseline feel that way.

And it's all internal work.

And it's the running too.

The running was huge in terms of bringing back my nervous system from years of drug abuse and stimulants and drinking and all the things.

And just putting these challenges in front of yourself to really build that self-esteem back.

What was the most challenging

Yeah

... as well within the concrete industry that it's difficult to actually be able to provide everything for everyone, and so people need to also take responsibility to research themselves and find out what they might need to know in different areas.

Unfortunately, at university level these days too, using concrete as a specific example, we don't have enough education at an undergraduate level with respect to materials, and that's an area that we're looking at addressing hopefully in, in some capacity in the coming years.

But that has changed dramatically over the last 30 years.

And so as a result, what people know when they come out of university is less than what it might have been in the past.

So they, in many respects, don't know what to look for.

And so when people start talking about particular areas of the concrete industry, they've never heard those terms before.

[laughs]

Yeah.

Um, but I knew that, like, I couldn't go home either because I knew I was probably gonna get high.

I was only, like, a little over 30 days at this point.

And, um, I found this place in California and I, like, start talking to them and, uh, they are like, "Listen, we can, like, hook you up with a s- with a bed."Um, but, like, you need to come, like, this week.

Mm-hmm.

Um, so I'm on the phone with the admissions guy, and, um, I end up taking that opportunity, going out there.

And I enter, like, a year-long very structured, like, behavioral modification, intensive, like, sober living where, you know, you don't have a cellphone.

Mm-hmm.