I

think for me, it was a very pure thing.

core and the pure thing was that no one was talking about urban birds and that was that so that was my innocent initial kind of and it still is my my kind of baseline but when i embarked on that journey that's when i discovered other other things um but When it comes to, for example, racism, I mean, I've had it all my life, so I'm used to it.

It's not as if it was a new thing suddenly.

It's always there.

So it's part of, unfortunately, it's part of having to live life, as far as I'm concerned.

It's one of those things you just have to sort of factor in any time you do anything.

In terms of an urban context, if you were telling somebody and you could pick anywhere, have you got any like top urban places that you're like, that's where you should go? And what makes them the places you pick? Specifically for looking at birds, not just because, you know, they have great food.

We're, we're going back to those days, aren't we? Yeah.

Yeah.

And I loved the idea of how he branded himself in a way that would attract attention.

And also, what he was doing was so novel, um, compared to the Fanny Craddocks and all the other people that were at the time doing their thing.

So he's making cooking more accessible, more interesting, and I wanted to do the same for birding and wildlife, especially urban birding.

So, um, the next day I called myself the Urban Birder.

And actually, I think the whole thing kicked off for me when I, when the actual, um, program f- you know, the Springwatch program went out, and I had my, my segment in it, and it kept the Urban Birder thing in it.

Mm