Leland concluded that Springer wanted him to be his Dick Cheney, a behind-the-scenes guy to run the government while Springer gave interviews and speeches.

He wanted to talk about big issues.

He wanted to talk about, you know, helping people, you know, grow and, and reach their potential and, and, you know, whether that's education or the economy or the environment or, or whatever.

He wanted to talk about the big issues.

Um, he didn't necessarily want to do the day-to-day stuff of being governor, like, you know, cabinet meetings and all that kind of stuff.

Leland's view was that Springer saw the governorship as his last chance to do something that might rival the impact of his TV show, something the obituary writers would have to include in the first paragraph when they wrote about him.

I mean, he was very...

He had a lot of bravado, and like, "Yeah, this show sucks," and, you know, he was al- you know, laughing about it and whatever.