Was there a turning point? Was there something that happened in particular that made you just say, "This is, this is just so toxic and so destructive"? So that was my first question, and my second question kind of in the, in the same thing is that with all of these dismissals and reorientation of, of priorities, uh, within the intelligence community, do you still think they have a red cell?

On, on the second one, when at last I knew they did, it was going-- I hope it's still going.

I don't know in what form it's still going, if it is.

I don't know, I don't know that it is.

I haven't been in the building for a while.

Um, I hope it is.

Um, we had a lot of fun for one thing, but it was, it was-- But intellectually, it was extremely-- It was great.

Sure.