So I just wondered how you came to the point where you thought, right, I need to really get serious with this particular release that he did in 75.

Well, he was, I didn't buy that album when it came out because it was the time of pocket money and Saturday job money and I wasn't going to spend it on something that the melody maker had just, was completely baffled by, you know, and I wasn't going to do that.

But it was 2017 and I was writing about yoga for a yoga magazine, Yoga and Meditation.

And I interviewed Mick Rock.

And, of course, we started talking.

He was a very keen yoga practitioner.

And we started talking about his friend Lou.

Was there a particular sort of, was the record label hoping for something a little bit more daytime friendly?

I mean, what, what, what, what do you think was the main motivation?

I, my thesis, and I freely admit it's, it's provocative and speculative, but I think there's not enough provocation and speculation in rock'n'roll writing, um, is that it was rooted in his, his Judaism, which was denied by his, his father, who wasn't observant, his love of rock'n'roll.

He said constantly, "Rock'n'roll was my god." And if you think of the rock'n'roll that he listened to, it was doo-wop, gospel-influenced R&B.

He, I discovered at Syracuse University, he did a course in divinity, where his tutor said that he thought he would have made a great priest, so, which is an extraordinary, mind-boggling idea.

But you've got this notion of, of the spiritual all the way throughout Lou Reed's life, and you've got his experience having electroconvulsive therapy as well, um, which, you know, gave him this fascination with electricity.

And he said The Velvet Underground were all about electricity.

I think all of those influences came together in the experimentation that became Metal Machine Music.

But, um, but you know, it, it, obviously he was mortified when the reviews came out at the time, but, but when it was performed, you talked about it earlier actually in the podcast, uh, you know, when it performed in Germany I think it was, wasn't it? That was a big moment for him, wasn't it? The idea it was g- finally getting some kind of recognition