So tell us about the cockroach.

Well, I mean, it's, um ...

I mean, [laughs] my mum was quite a maverick and, you know, if anyone's lost their mum, you know, you will think about your mum forever more, um, and your dad.

And, um, and you know, those people are special people, not just 'cause they're your mum and dad, but they're, they're kind of like your early best friends, and they're your, your, your sort of guidance on, on the planet.

And my m- [laughs] my mum, uh, would tell me how s- I mean, how stubborn I was, and, uh, it was true.

I mean, you know, if I decided I wasn't gonna do something, I would literally ...

We'd be walking, I would literally stop in the middle of the road with folded arms and I would not move, and they'd have to come and pick me up and manhandle me off the road.

Are you able to also spot if it's the wrong thing before you get to the point where you're not giving in?

[laughs]

And, and so, like, it, that, that was the catalyst for it to go and start, so...

And we only planned to do one.

And, and so, like, in terms of strategy, I mean, this is a...

The Do Lectures is, like, not a good example, because it was like, "We'll do one.

It'll be fun." Um, and then 16 years later, um, we're kind of now full-time for the first time in 16 years, myself and Claire have...

And it's actually, do you know what? It's like...

[laughs]