Yep.

Yeah, so I think you'd be found guilty of corruption, number one, and number two, that you've ended up...

And it could be that you say you have to have a specific jail term of, say, I don't know, six months or 12 months so that it's watertight.

One of the things that worries me at the moment is that we're starting to see the definition of corruption broadened to such an extent that... we're no longer really talking about what people would think of as corruption.

So right now the Victorian Parliament is considering changing the definition so it would include misconduct at work that might lead to somebody losing their job.

That's kind of to conflate poor performance at work with corruption.

I think we've got to be really careful because we're talking about people's livelihoods, their reputations.

What about something like the Commonwealth Games here in Victoria?

Yep.

Yeah, so I think you'd be found guilty of corruption, number one, and number two, that you've ended up – and it could be that you say you have to have a specific jail term of, say, I don't know, six months or 12 months so that it's watertight.

One of the things that worries me at the moment is that we're starting to see the definition of corruption broadened to such an extent that – we're no longer really talking about what people would think of as corruption so right now the Victorian parliament is considering changing the definition so it would include misconduct at work that might lead to somebody losing their job that's kind of to conflate poor performance at work with corruption I think we've got to be really careful because we're talking about people's livelihoods their reputations we have to be really specific because it's a very serious offense

What about something like the Commonwealth Games here in Victoria?

The Commonwealth Games, look, again, I think that that's a case of government.

And sometimes I think it is appropriate that a government can say, look, we did make a mistake and we're going to quit our losses.

We're not going to chuck good money after bad.

That's a separate issue.

Um, what do you see particularly with your customers and partners that you, that as key drivers to digital transformation?

In terms of that, I think it's probably the kind of rising guest expectations, to be honest with you.

I think yesteryear people kind of just checked into a hotel, went to their room, had room service, checked out.

They didn't really sort of care too much about the, the customer journey.

Nowadays, I think as, um, kind of millen- millennials are coming into the market, um, they've got money to spend.

Um, you know, the, the whole, there's a whole shift in, in the, the customer base.

And I think with technology how it is, people have these expectations of being able to kind of, you know, frictionless checking in.

Um, what, what's have, what are the ways that, a- advice that you give in, in order to really look at what the ho- hotel's ecosystem is?

Um, is that how you would rank it?

Um, look, it...

According to the Premier, it's number one, and I assume that he's had a look at the cost-benefit analysis and the business cases and whatever else and decided that that's the top priority.

They're both, they both look o-okay on paper.

Um, but at the end of the day, it is a democracy, so it also depends on what people have voted for, and the Suburban Rail Loop has also been voted for twice, um, so far.

There we go.

Well, I think that he will.

I mean, a-and there's funding in the budget to do it.

There we go.

Well, I think that he will.

I mean, and there's funding in the budget to do it.

So the airport rail link has already got money tucked away, as has the suburban rail loop.

I don't think there's any problem about funding the delivery of both.

I mean, if they get into some sort of trouble, they can always slow it down.

The problem now for the suburban rail loop is that stopping it would cost us money, not only for foregone Commonwealth revenue, but also the paying out the contracts.

So, Doctor, this is just simply a conversation that we're all having, and yet, you know, the train has left the station.

Well, under the principles of cabinet governments, which is a form of collective decision making, I mean, even if they do axe the leader today, Jacinta Allen, and get a new one, can all the other ministers sort of claim that they're innocent of all the problems that have occurred?

I don't think that they can claim that they're innocent, but I think that they'd also probably claim some credit for some of the achievements made.

So what they have done is that they have locked in behind the Premier, however you look at it, and they've shown great discipline, which adds another question to the equation.

Given that there's been such discipline and the Premier's popularity has been tanking since day one, what might help explain the situation the Premier finds herself in? Because normally you see disunity and people coming out calling for someone to go.

They haven't.

They've stuck right behind her right until this day.

So again, do you think that's the sort of thing they'll try and do?

Look, I imagine that absolutely they're going to have to call some kind of inquiry, whether it's a Royal Commission or whatever it is.

Now, do you believe those allegations to be true, just leaving aside how much money may or may not have been wasted?

Yes, Tom, look, I've no doubt that many of those cases, those things did happen.

I don't think anybody could take issue with that.

I think the point is, if we come back to the 15B, and so the Watson report says identify 16 bikies.

That's 16, that's all.

Now, of those 16, I think eight of them reappear as part of the organised crime figures.

There's a lot of double counting and when you have a look at the incidents that are covered, quite often the Watson report says this is the product of speculation or stories or stories about speculation.

The Premier said, well, we'll give you those powers, but not until November 2027, which I must admit I don't really understand.

Now, do you believe those allegations to be true, just leaving aside how much money may or may not have been wasted?

Yes, Tom, look, I've no doubt that many of those cases, those things did happen.

I don't think anybody could take issue with that.

I think the point is, if we come back to the 15B, and so the Watson report says, identifies 16 bikies.

That's 16, that's all.

Now, of those 16, I think eight of them reappear as part of the organised crime figures.

There's a lot of double counting and when you have a look at the incidents that are covered, quite often the Watson report says this is the product of speculation or stories or stories about speculation.

foundations for the claims well what is what is or who is the correct body to investigate this i mean the premier has sort of grudgingly admitted that maybe ibac should do it but ibac says it needs more powers the premier said we'll give you those powers but not until november 2027 which i must admit i don't really understand

And I also wanted to ask, was it ever nerve-wracking to depict Jesus in cartoon format? Because that's the kind of thing people get upset about quite easily.

That's interesting.

I know I get some people saying that I'm committing blasphemy by portraying Jesus or God in a picture.

Yeah.

very Calvinist.

I mean, uh, I, I, I was a Calvinist at one time.

Like I was, I was totally into reformed theology.

What do we do as Christians or just as people of conscience? What is your view on that?

The PMS is regarded as the beating heart of the hotel and who wants to do heart surgery? So what are the barriers that you see generally for hoteliers when it comes to making that change or investing wider in their systems and tech stack? I mean,

yeah, for independent hotels, it's a difficult one, isn't it? Because you've got a sort of limited budget.

You haven't got an IT team.

You haven't got advisors.

And ultimately, it comes down to do I refurbish a bedroom or do I put in a new TV system, as you said, or a new PMS system? So it's a very tough one.

There's also sometimes resistance.

You know, you've got people in the hotel that use the same PMS for 20 odd years, but it's sat on a server in the corner somewhere.

And then, I mean, Deco mentioned, you know, what are the district-based opportunities then?