And it literally was the current England side against this team of all-stars, uh, you know, made up-- I don't think the Australians were there, were they?

they?But- No ... my subject- Okay, I've got-- Okay, I've got a feeling.

Was that the one...

Was, uh, my long-term friend and ally, Mr. Lamb, Alan Lamb, involved in the- He was ...

the organization thereof? Yes, he was.

Even Brian Lara was there, David.

And Mr. Holliday.

Did that ever annoy you?

Y- you're amongst a group of international well-known cricketers who've signed this letter, but what's quite telling, isn't it, that there are only two other Pakistani cricketers who've actually been speaking out about Imran Khan? Why do you think that's the case?

That could be as simple as if you are living in Pakistan under the current government, one of the things you'll probably want to do is keep your head down.

What's interesting to me is that, you know, the list includes, obviously generated by Greg Chappell, an Australian.

We've got some of the English captains from my, my time, starting with Mike Brearley, Mike Atherton.

You've got Australians, you've got Indians.

Sunil Gavaskar, who's an immensely well-respected figure.

So you've got- A consensus across the world, and I think that's more telling than the absence of anyone who might feel it's more sensible to keep their heads down.

And how worried are you right now for your friend?

Uh, before we talk about some of the, the footy stuff, uh, tell us a little bit about the role that you've just taken on with the RLPA and, and what you've been doing, you know, previously in the last couple of years post-footy, mate.

Yeah, sure.

So I've, uh, recently taken on Jamie Burey's old role as the General Manager of Football and Player Ops.

You know, Tommy Simons moved to the Rugby Union Players Association, which was a big loss for us, but it's, uh, actually worked in my favor, this one, and I'm excited to be on board with a great team that's really passionate about, you know, ensuring the players' voices are heard and, and, and respected.

And for the last six years, Scope, I've been the Head of Education and Wellbeing at the Eagles.

So, you know, post-playing, I've been lucky enough to stay involved in, in the game that I love, and it's given me so much, and it's, it's a real passion of mine, serving the players.

So to be able to do it at a whole of game level across both the NRL and NRLW now in my new role is something that really excites me.

Uh, now that you're in this role, what do you think are the most important things that, you know, players need to identify when it comes to post-career and, and, and trying to set up life after 40? Like, what, what sort of programs are the RLPA putting in, in place for these players?

A- a- and it's not a- an easy question to answer.

Uh, actually it is, you know, because Ben has done some brilliant, brilliant things.

Um, if you look back over the last decade especially, um, including the four years of captaincy, but, you know, the decade, uh... well, I mean, all his 14 years, 13, 14 years as an England player, I mean, some of the innings he played early on, um, you know, double hundred in Cape Town was extraordinary.

Um, I mean, the, the big innings for me was the hundred at Headingley to win that test match almost single-handedly, where I remember being in a Sky studio hosting the sort of post-match, uh, debrief with, uh, Ian Botham alongside, and the first thing I had to say to Ian is, "I think that's better than yours." Uh, which is quite a big thing 'cause, you know, Botham in '81 was j- unbelievable.

Stokes, uh, 2019, wasn't it? He was, um...

you know, that was an extraordinary innings.

I mean, that was a single-handed victory by a man who wasn't gonna give up, who realized that, you know, first of all, he had to dig in, play a proper innings, give himself half a chance of being there at the end, and then when Jack Leach infamously added one to that final partnership, the shots he was playing, and so the, the, so the big change in momentum, I mean, that was...

And even listening to Ben post this test match or after the decision, it, it feels like it almost broke him, what happened here in Australia.

Uh, firstly, just obviously on Ben Stokes, be- before we sort of get into the nitty-gritty of it all, how are you going to remember him as a cricketer? Be- i- and, and it's not a- an easy question to answer.

Uh, actually it is, you know, because Ben has done some brilliant, brilliant things.

Um, if you look back over the last decade especially, um, including the four years of captaincy, but, you know, the decade, uh...

Well, I mean, all his 14 years, 13, 14 years as an England player.

I mean, some of the innings he played early on, um, you know, double hundred in Cape Town was extraordinary.

Um, I mean, the, the big innings for me was the hundred at Headingley to win that test match almost single-handedly, where I remember being in a Sky studio hosting the sort of post-match, uh, debrief with, uh, Ian Botham alongside, and the first thing I had to say to Ian is, "I think that's better than yours." Uh, which is quite a big thing, 'cause, you know, Botham in '81 was j- unbelievable.

Stokes', uh, 2019, wasn't it? He was, um...

And even listening to Ben post this test match or after the decision, it, it feels like it almost broke him, what happened here in Australia.

You need to

be a genius psychologist, politician, tactician, cricketer helps, which Ben certainly had in his.

I mean, you've alluded to already those all round abilities were incredible, in many ways still are incredible, although it's been a bit of a fade away.

the last few months um it's a very demanding job actually if you do it properly i don't claim to have done it properly necessarily but if you do it properly you're engaged uh each and every day each and every hour every day you've got to talk to people understand people work out how people work and you've got to play cricket so i mean it's it's very very demanding i promise you do you enjoy it you love it when it's going well you find it a bit of a problem when it's going badly.

And I can remember all too clearly both ends of the scale.

Even when it's going badly, actually, there is a sort of visceral desire still to be England captain because there's so much kudos comes with it.

You're a proud man to be an England captain, especially if you're fully aware of all the responsibilities.

Is your faith in Ben or is your faith in both?

Yeah.

So when we gave the West Indies an hour before lunch and two more sessions to make 341, we were also a little bit taken aback when they made it with time to spare.

Yeah, yeah.

I was also actually probably more famous in that game in 1989, not for the 100 which came on the Monday, but for leaving the press conference on the Saturday night-