So how do you see globe artichoke working there to support the digestive system working in IBS, even though there's this contradictory fructan level

in the herb? I guess from the fructan aspect, I tend to see that whole aspect as being in a way overstated in that the people who were looking at that as an issue really saw IBS as symptoms, not as what's happening for the whole person.

It's like, how can we decrease these symptoms? And if you only look at the symptomatic treatment, then that really, I guess, seems a bit logical because those symptoms know microbes are um not necessarily well balanced so they're creating more gas etc you know and so okay let's just get rid of those the food for them we'll starve them and that then will decrease your symptoms so it's to me it's a very that's a very um black and white symptom a way of approaching it The important thing I think we've got to remember that the people who came up with the whole FODMAP idea were very clear that you should only ever do that for six months.

You know, I mean, that's the bit that we need to make sure we remember is that it's not a treatment.

It's symptomatic relief.

which it's so important to bring them back in.

So I think where Globe fits in is that because it's working on all of the other areas that we have with digestion, like, for instance, bile is so often overlooked, but bile is incredibly important for all of our digestive processes.

Look,

What is it that first drew you to this herb in clinical practice?

Well, what-- where I first got started with investing or thinking about passionflower or thinking about something for, to help with, um, someone who was significantly elevated, I guess, was my dad, um, had Alzheimer's and, um, we were-- Mom was trying to manage him at home.

She managed him at home for quite a while.

Um, [clears throat] and we'd done various things, you know, to try and support that process.

Um, he was...

His, his behavior started to get quite challenging because, um, as you lose your sense of who you are, um, that becomes quite scary, and he would really become very agitated and, you know, very hard to manage, I guess, um, best way to put it.

Um, and so we started looking for something that we could use to help to settle him down.

Go.