But how did that happen exactly, even to those who did survive? Because obviously the Jewish remnant did live on.

Well, firstly, the non-Jewish populations didn't wanna talk about these Jews, uh, because they participated largely in their, in their murder.

When I started researching the greatest Jewish footballer of all time, uh, Josef Braun, for example, all I found on the Hungarian language Wikipedia page was a couple of paragraphs and the normal evasion and inaccuracy about his death when he was murdered by Hungarians, Hungarian guards.

Yes, Jews have also played a role in this forgetting.

I think not just because the memory was erased from Eastern Europe.

I think we're also looking at a few factors here.

Firstly, the European Jewish population was obliterated, exterminated, and 90% of the world's Jews now live in Israel and the United States.

I- are the heirs to the teams you describe, the likes of Hakoah Vienna, to be found playing domestic football in Israel?

Who you open with.

Absolutely.

And when you...

I, I have actually done an experiment with Jewish football fans over the years.

I mean, a lot, a, a lot of my friends are Jews, a lot of my friends are football fans, and I suppose those two things make us more likely to be friends.

And I've done a sort of experiment over the last few years where I've managed to engineer into the conversation a few questions.

I'll say, "Who's the greatest, uh, Brazilian player of all time?" And they'll say, "Pelé." And then I'll say, uh, that, yeah, "That's a silly question.

How do you think the book challenges the conventional narratives about both football history and Jewish history?