So what, what do you think about that aspect to this? 'Cause it seemed like it was successful in a number of places.

Yeah.

Just to, just to put a number to it, we had six registered slates, and their official name in terms of Elections BC is e- electoral organizations, um, better known as civic parties.

And I think the term civic party gives us a better sense of their flavor.

What they are is, uh, you know, borrowing the, the very familiar party structure, a party-centered nature of provincial and federal politics, and interpolating it into the much more granular, you know, emphatically local, civic, civic realm.

Um, slates, uh, allow you to do a couple of things.

First of all, they are kryptonite to incumbency.

Talk about h- why they're controversial.

But I think it's the potential of the debate, right, David? Like sometimes they can deliver a moment for people that kind of clarifies how they're feeling.

Yeah, it happens more rarely than you think.

I mean, the classic case in Canadian political history, you have to go back all the way to 1984.

Brian Mulroney, Conservative leader, says to then Prime Minister John Turner, you had an option, sir, with regard to patriot appointments that Turner had made on behalf of Pierre Elliott Trudeau.

And that that that turned the tables on Turner and basically ended that that campaign.

But with that as the kind of standard for, you know, a killer line that that that changes an election, we don't see that very often because the leaders are well groomed.

In terms of the preparation, they're careful.

Do you think that debate would change anyone's mind?

I've never heard that one before." What do you think?

Well, I think with r- respect to the, the, the, the, the large and growing number of promises that we've seen from the two parties likely to form government, the NDP and the Conservatives, I think it's the, uh, on the Conservative side, it's the tax freeze, clearly.

I mean, it has, it has the, the effect of being very elegant, very simple to understand.

Everybody understands what taxes are and what a, a freeze might mean.

On the NDP side, I think it's probably the, the, the grocery, uh, promise.

Basically a kind of a cap on, on grocery prices.

People understand, uh, life is expensive.

Or does that destroy his credibility? Go ahead

Uh, but I think there's an interesting kinda two sides to this story, and I'm kinda curious how you think this is going over.

Yeah, let's, let's kind of put this in the context of, of where we are in the election.

We're now essentially at the, at the midpoint.

We're 17 days in with 16 days left, including writ day and, and election day in that mix.

And, uh, David Eby has, you know, got the, the first big break of this election.

I mean, this is an election the NDP has been slowly losing.

Uh, currently, according to 338Canada, estimates have them about four points behind in terms of poll averages, which would probably deliver a Conservative majority.

Yeah.

Leaders do this all the time.

Yeah, actually, looking at this data yesterday, we've seen a trend toward more and more snap elections federally and at the provincial level across the country.

Because what a snap election does is it gives the government of the day a you know, control over perhaps the most important variable, and that's timing, right? As in comedy, so in politics, timing really matters.

And, you know, if you were conducting a thought experiment and looking at, you know, it doesn't matter who's premier, what party's in power in BC, you have a one seat majority, you've got an uneven record to run on, but you have a, your political competition is in utter disarray.

What are you going to do? two years into your mandate, you might call a snap election, right? So I think, you know, chances are that we may well see one.

But again, the issue is just when that call might come.

Do you buy that?

Well, I think the, you know, any government with such a slim majority, you know, is concerned for its own stability.

It all sounds very bad when I put

it like that.

But, you know, as Dr. Wilson said, the dam has burst.

I think what yesterday did was confirmed, but not complete, what is a structural realignment in the centre-right in BC? You know, a coalition that more often than not, going back to the post-war period, has kind of won power in BC, probably the most winning coalition, I think, in Canadian history, really.

And what, you know, voters who, you know, sorry, party members who voted in the leadership election in May are now looking at are two very well-defined choices.

You know, in some sense, the return of, you know, the B.C. liberals with these 10 independent MLAs, most of whom are fiscally conservative, but not socially or culturally conservative.

And now with this much smaller B.C. conservative caucus, you know, increasingly, proportionately very conservative group of MLAs.

What do you think the Conservative Party and conservative politicians need to do to become more relevant to Canadians?

Uh, I have to ask, um, how are you?

Thank you for asking.

I'm recovering.

Um, but if I may say so, the story here is not about how I'm doing.

The story here is, if this is what the agents of the Trump administration are doing to pastors, to journalists, to peaceful protesters in broad daylight, it is, it makes me shudder to imagine what they might be doing to our neighbors who are captive behind closed doors.

And I hope that the consciences of all those who are concerned about me, and I have been grateful for the outpouring of support I have received from people around this country, but I hope that their consciences will be turned to those who are vulnerable and invisible in this moment, who are seeking that solidarity and support that has been so lovingly offered to me.

Wh- what do you think the presence of faith leaders and faith communities in the protests, um, has done to affect the overall presence of these federal agents and the overall response in Chicago?

This is a moment when people are profoundly disenchanted and profoundly overcome by despair and a feeling of powerlessness.

What do you see in the protests that, um, you describe as joy?

Hmm.

Thank you for asking that.

There is such a deep, uh, sense of solidarity and mutual aid in these protests.

Uh, protestors are gathering, uh, in, in a way that is totally pluralistic and autonomous.

This group has no leaders, um, it has no sponsors.

It's a group of people who are in love with their neighbors and in love with their communities and showing up to be in solidarity with people who cannot speak right now, who are hiding in their homes or who have already been abducted and disappeared.

What is the... what is the parallel i- in- in your world, in the faith world, and what do you see, uh, the power of showing up, what does that mean to you in our politics?