Like, just the Wild West back then, not an institutional asset class, and you kind of were one of the, the key people in creating a real asset class out of something that people thought was a joke.

Yeah, I, I think people, like...

W- what I did, and by the way, I, I wish I had let that kind of stigma play on in a, if I'd...

I would've been even bigger [laughs] in that space 'cause we, we got too many entrants in it.

But what I, what I did is I, I joke, I would go to these real estate conferences, and you'd have, you know, the apartment guy, the retail guy, the office developer, and they wouldn't let me sit at the lunch table 'cause I was just a student housing guy.

And because to your point, like, the stigma, that's shitty real estate, they turn over.

But you know what? What I had saw early on, and I was like, "What am I missing?" Colleges aren't going anywhere.

Do you almost not even care as much about the good news as the bad news as a leader?

[laughs]

He, he's a really competitive guy.

I, I mean, he's 83 today, and he will, like, kill you for a quarter on the golf course, right? Like, if you're trying to putt or whatever.

Like, he loves it.

So he's just a high-energy guy, and he just said, "I'm gonna teach you about betting." He's like, "Well, what do you wanna bet?" You know, I didn't have money.

I'm 11.

And he's like, "How about that baseball glove?" And I'm like, "Okay." And I lose.

What was it like for you to kinda take control of it and, and run it, and now it's in motion? What's it been like for you? What was it like getting it? All of that stuff.

(laughs)

Um, and, and so, for me, uh, Uncle Alan, Alan Horwitz, who, with his mother, founded Campus Apartments in the late 1950s.

Alan is, like, a serial, old-time entrepreneur real estate guy.

Like, just like the old-timers, and it's a generation, unfortunately, that, you know, not many of them are left.

And literally, he taught me the business as a kid.

And so, th- the story goes, um, Uncle Alan was over at our house.

I'm 11 years old.

Mm-hmm.