yeah i love chatting to creatives about like the the fallibility of personal taste because it literally by definition has to shift and evolve right like you look back on photos of yourself 10 20 years ago and barely recognized the person and like the life they live led and the things that they like and the clothes that they wear and the thing that felt so cool and edgy then feels like so bad and of the time now and yeah dave is there i don't know how do you keep that in check and make sure that you're not falling victim to thinking that like your taste is the taste, but also being like, I've spent all these years refining and figuring out what good looks like and pushing hard on that when you know that it's right.

It's such a hard one, isn't it? It's such a gut, a gut feel and all those things, but sounds like such a avoidant, avoidant answer.

But I suppose when you've lived with a brand for a long time, I suppose just thinking about in the nuts and bolts of actually making campaigns and you feel like you've helped build that tone and being a guidance sounds so wanky, but being the guardian of that tone and protecting it and shaping it over the years, then you feel like you've got something to draw on and a sort of, experience that you you know what sort of sits in the right zone but but to your point you don't want to be closing down other people's additions to that that brand world and that taste so i suppose um just trusting your gut i suppose on the taste but then being open-minded enough and that's why we have these wonderful teams underneath us who kind of always bring you the surprising different take that you haven't thought of before but maybe just those little touches little fingerprints to kind of shape it in the right place but um as far as just putting your foot down and saying you've got the best taste on that thing i I don't know.

It's a bit of a team thing as well.

I think at our best, we've got sort of a few brand guardians in the building and we're going to compare notes, but without letting it just go death by committee, it's obviously you want to share the thinking, share the idea, but then obviously stick by your convictions at the right moments in the process, I

So that's one example that I thought of, but I'd love to hear how you've thought about sound across different pieces of work or different clients.

That is the one that comes to mind just because it was so, I think as you correctly picked out, it was so critical to how we showed up with that and the context of, you know, the noisy cluttered ad breaks and how can we give people a break from the ad break was kind of a bit of a North Star on that one and just being so reductive and stripping it right back.

It was a bit counterintuitive.