What would be the guidance you would have from a people management or modern workforce kind of consulting perspective for situations like that?

Yeah, for the first one, you got to really start with compassion.

The truth is legacy matters.

And if you have a vested interest in real estate, it's just going to be harder to uproot that.

So the easier path is just sticking with it.

And I think people writ large really underestimate the power of human psychology when it comes to this.

There's a theory called complexity theory within organizational design that essentially argues that humans can only stay in a state of chaos for so long before they revert back to their last known state of coherence, even if logically they know that it's not forward progress.

But what do you think is going to happen the next like, you know, 12 or 24 months that you find interesting or things that maybe people aren't necessarily thinking about?

Was the trend going that way before the pandemic? And how have most organizations rebounded or sort of evolved from that since the post-pandemic world?

Yeah, there was a line in there that I think is really important, which is, was the trend already heading there before the pandemic? And for my entire career, 20 years, I've worked across the spectrum of remote.

And so I've been hybrid in office and remote well before there was a term for this, well before there were technologies like Slack and Teams.

And so these teams have existed, but they were always a niche way of running a business.

Then the pandemic happened and then suddenly a niche became mainstream.

And you saw a lot of organizations trying to figure this out.

They were thrust into a new way of working, a new operational model without a choice and without a lot of time to prepare.

What were the principles that you needed to lean on?

So when I worked in fully remote organizations, there were certain things that we had to do in business that were non-optional.

But for fully in-office companies, they remained optional.

Some of these things were building what I call an org brain or having a proper POV on knowledge management.

And so the best distributed organizations look at knowledge as a product.

They take it just as seriously as something like information security.

It's not optional to get this right.

and