How did you end up being the lead at Red Rocks.

Yeah, Debbie, it's quite the story.

And I get to tell this story a lot because of the uncommon path into the CEO seat at Red Rocks Credit Union, and frankly, even into the industry.

But my path into financial services wasn't a traditional one.

I spent nearly two decades in pastoral and nonprofit leadership before joining the credit union movement.

The common thread for me has always been people.

whether it's serving them, building trust and helping others move forward.

And then if there's a difference in Red Rocks, how do you define your market value proposition?

So as you look back, what's the toughest decision you've made, either on a corporate or on a personal basis, that you've made to protect the organization, but that you felt internally that it may have cost you a little bit of trust?

Jim, that's such a vulnerable question to, to ask.

Thank you for asking it.

I think, uh, every CEO that listens to this will understand, um, at least one of these answers or maybe both.

Uh, you know, we have been unapologetic.

I think it- the M&A path, the consolidation path that we've seen throughout the industry, uh, is both appropriate and very necessary, uh, a very necessary path for growing an organization.

I think there's two paths to growth: organic growth and inorganic growth, and M&A falls in the inorganic category.

Maybe it's employee in a bulk or employee as an individual.