Who do you remember working with whose career path or whose way of living a career like this was the most resonant with you that you wanted to emulate the most?

Well, at this point, I didn't really have that person, Len.

When I started at Cooper's, I was in a state and local practice.

That's state and local, which means state and local taxation, right? Salt, state and local taxation.

And I had done some summer work at a small firm doing that.

And what I very rapidly figured out was the people that were great state and local practitioners, they all had a federal background.

And you could just see how fluid they were with the federal rules and then the state overlay.

What was that?